Do you TRULY want a good AR-15 or do you want crap?

[Alpo]

From what I understand and have seen, yes.

I'm curious, not critical. 100% testing by a destructive method. I wonder what the destructive test is? I did a quick google search and couldn't find anything.

MPI I understand. But that is not a destructive test.

Proof testing isn't truly a destructive test...otherwise 100% testing sample will result in 0.0 yield.

Are we dealing with marketing terminology or engineering methods?

HPT is milspec testing. Lots of milspec manufacturers and assemblers out there.

 

[Vigilant]

People that buy cheap pistols and cheap AR's are the biggest **** talkers I've ever seen. They gotta justify that hi-point purchase.
even with videos from major gun reviewers and instructors they think they still know best because their **** gun has never malfunctioned. That's fine for you but don't try to send others down the wrong path. Just because you can't afford better or won't because you're Too cheap it doesn't mean others are the same. And yes all machines can and will fail but I prefer to increase my odds by not starting cheap and at a disadvantage.
Start a cheap AR thread so everyone can stroke themseves in it

I bowed out earlier, but I'm pretty sure this post was /thread! I agree now that that cheap **** everyone defends is just as good as(insert not a piece of **** here)! The race to zero has been won by the cheap asses, they are right, many, many, trainers, manufacturers, builders, armorers, are wrong! Parts is ****ing parts, why spend anymore than the cheapest knockoff can get ya! So, this should end all the "I just built this, and it doesn't work"threads as well, right? And on that, I'm out again for good this time, I mean it, sort of!

 

[Timjoebillybob]

I'm curious, not critical. 100% testing by a destructive method. I wonder what the destructive test is? I did a quick google search and couldn't find anything.

I'm curious also, because destructive testing is literally testing until destruction. Whether for endurance, pressure, wear, or whatever. The item is tested until it fails. If they performed destructive testing on all of their barrels and bolts, they wouldn't have any.

 

[Vigilant]

I'm curious also, because destructive testing is literally testing until destruction. Whether for endurance, pressure, wear, or whatever. The item is tested until it fails. If they performed destructive testing on all of their barrels and bolts, they wouldn't have any.

HPT is a destructive test for non MIL-SPEC parts like barrel and bolt! After HPT comes MPI, which decides if the part met the spec, or was destroyed/didn't meet spec! If a company proof tests, they should also MPI according to MIL-STD-1949(a huge document outlining ALL the details of HPT/MPI testing). There are also other specs, and drawings that need to be referred to for EVERY part in the weapon system as to whether they meet spec or not. Moral of the story, HPT/proof testing is destructive to non-spec parts! Ok I lied again and was back...but, buy what you want, I will no longer offer advice, nor opinion on this subject, as there are many more eggsperts out there who've never even seen the actual MIL-SPEC for this particular family of weapon system.(even though it's available online). Hell, I'd go out on a limb and say most INGO builders don't know what the 23&P is?

 

[boman]

[QUOTEAll barrels and bolts go through destructive testing at BCM? Is that what your are saying?][/QUOTE]

If you go to BCM's website that's what they imply but I seriously doubt they test any bolts inhouse---bolts are tested at the point of manufacture and BCM doesn't make bolts. and; if they test barrels inhouse I would be surprised. The only barrels that may get a proof load thru them are the ones they put on the complete rifles they sell. I'll bet they don't own a universal receiver to test every barrel they offer for sale.

My opinion is that they are nothing more than a reseller of parts,(an Ar-15 is nothing more than the some of its parts), which have been private labeled BCM. You see the ar-15 platform and all of it's parts have been in the public domain for a very long time and it's common knowledge that the same suppliers for the military have made the parts available to the public. There are also a lot of non military spec parts available. As others, BCM sells both. They have an 07 manufactures license which allows them to resell complete rifles assembled from outsourced suppliers. You pay a premium for the "brand name". Their charging handle is their only "claim to fame" and you can see the premium you pay for that.

Just buy a rifle with a good mil spec barrel and bolt carrier assembly at the best price you can find and go from there depending on your budget, don't get hung up on brand names.

Steve

 

[JollyMon]

 

[Trigger Time]

If you go to BCM's website that's what they imply but I seriously doubt they test any bolts inhouse---bolts are tested at the point of manufacture and BCM doesn't make bolts. and; if they test barrels inhouse I would be surprised. The only barrels that may get a proof load thru them are the ones they put on the complete rifles they sell. I'll bet they don't own a universal receiver to test every barrel they offer for sale.

My opinion is that they are nothing more than a reseller of parts,(an Ar-15 is nothing more than the some of its parts), which have been private labeled BCM. You see the ar-15 platform and all of it's parts have been in the public domain for a very long time and it's common knowledge that the same suppliers for the military have made the parts available to the public. There are also a lot of non military spec parts available. As others, BCM sells both. They have an 07 manufactures license which allows them to resell complete rifles assembled from outsourced suppliers. You pay a premium for the "brand name". Their charging handle is their only "claim to fame" and you can see the premium you pay for that.

Just buy a rifle with a good mil spec barrel and bolt carrier assembly at the best price you can find and go from there depending on your budget, don't get hung up on brand names.

Steve

you seriously do not know what the heck you are talking about. Please don't put out info if you don't know what you are talking about.

folks, don't be like Steve

 

[KG1]

Some people just get way to serious over ****. Just had to say it. I'm out again. **** it.

 

[hog slayer]

you seriously do not know what the heck you are talking about. Please don't put out info if you don't know what you are talking about.

folks, don't be like Steve

Haha! Nice!

 

[boman]

Originally Posted by Trigger Time
you seriously do not know what the heck you are talking about. Please don't put out info if you don't know what you are talking about.

folks, don't be like Steve



Haha! Nice!

Yea Just wanted to stir the BCM boys up again and see how long this thread will last.

Here's some useful information that's been out there since 1994. Since this was published Military has seen some bolt lugs crack near the extractor groove in the 5000rd plus range and require mandatory inspection and replacement upon armorer inspection at the depot level from what i understand. As I stated---doubt BCM is doing inhouse testing. Also might look at my signature line.



3.4.4 High Pressure resistance. Each barrel assembly and
bolt shall withstand the firing of one Government standard M197,
5.56mm high pressure test cartridge conforming to MIL-C-46936.
After proof firing, parts shall be free of cracks, seams and
other injurious defects as evidenced by visual and magnetic
particle inspection.


4.7.4. Barrel inspection. The barrel assembly shall be
magnetic particle inspected in accordance with MIL-STD-1949
utilizing a current of 400 to 500 amperes for circular continuous
magnetization. The barrel assembly shall be examined for
evidence of cracks, seams and other injurious defects.


4.7.4.3 Bolt inspection. The bolt shall be magnetic
particle inspected in accordance with MIL-STD-1949 utilizing
standard five turn magnetizing coil with a current of 200 to 300
amperes. Both circular and longitudinal continuous magnetization
with wet fluorescent solution shall be used. The bolts shall be
examined for evidence of cracks, seams and other injurious
defects.


4.7.4 High-pressure resistance test. This test shall be
performed during individual carbine testing in accordance with
TABLE III, using a fixture for holding the bolt and barrel
assembly per drawing 11837944.
36
MIL-C-70599A(AR)
4.7.4.1 Test cartridge. One (1) high-pressure test
cartridge (see 3.4.4) shall be fired in each bolt and barrel
assembly. Unless otherwise specified, the bolt and barrel
assembly shall be tested concurrently. After proof firing
cartridge cases shall be examined for bulges, splits, rings and
other defects caused by defective chambers of the barrel
assembly.

 

[Vigilant]

Originally Posted by Trigger Time
you seriously do not know what the heck you are talking about. Please don't put out info if you don't know what you are talking about.

folks, don't be like Steve



Haha! Nice!

Yea Just wanted to stir the BCM boys up again and see how long this thread will last.

Here's some useful information that's been out there since 1994. Since this was published Military has seen some bolt lugs crack near the extractor groove in the 5000rd plus range and require mandatory inspection and replacement upon armorer inspection at the depot level from what i understand. As I stated---doubt BCM is doing inhouse testing. Also might look at my signature line.



3.4.4 High Pressure resistance. Each barrel assembly and
bolt shall withstand the firing of one Government standard M197,
5.56mm high pressure test cartridge conforming to MIL-C-46936.
After proof firing, parts shall be free of cracks, seams and
other injurious defects as evidenced by visual and magnetic
particle inspection.


4.7.4. Barrel inspection. The barrel assembly shall be
magnetic particle inspected in accordance with MIL-STD-1949
utilizing a current of 400 to 500 amperes for circular continuous
magnetization. The barrel assembly shall be examined for
evidence of cracks, seams and other injurious defects.


4.7.4.3 Bolt inspection. The bolt shall be magnetic
particle inspected in accordance with MIL-STD-1949 utilizing
standard five turn magnetizing coil with a current of 200 to 300
amperes. Both circular and longitudinal continuous magnetization
with wet fluorescent solution shall be used. The bolts shall be
examined for evidence of cracks, seams and other injurious
defects.


4.7.4 High-pressure resistance test. This test shall be
performed during individual carbine testing in accordance with
TABLE III, using a fixture for holding the bolt and barrel
assembly per drawing 11837944.
36
MIL-C-70599A(AR)
4.7.4.1 Test cartridge. One (1) high-pressure test
cartridge (see 3.4.4) shall be fired in each bolt and barrel
assembly. Unless otherwise specified, the bolt and barrel
assembly shall be tested concurrently. After proof firing
cartridge cases shall be examined for bulges, splits, rings and
other defects caused by defective chambers of the barrel
assembly.

Ya, I pretty much said the same several posts up without the huge cut and paste? MIL-STD-1949 which also refers to the drawings the M197 proof round, etc. BTW, I'm NOT a BCM fan boy, I like them, but I own Colts, BCM, LMT, etc. So, what about your Sig line is an important read? NRA, FFL, or Purdue grad? None of the three lend credence to your argument?

 

[Alpo]

Those are not normally labeled as "destructive" tests, TT. They are good tests and the military requires them. They are not destructive if the part, subassembly, or product is built within tolerance according to the specification.

boman was correct, is correct and saying that he isn't doesn't make him incorrect.

 

[boman]

Ya, I pretty much said the same several posts up without the huge cut and paste? MIL-STD-1949 which also refers to the drawings the M197 proof round, etc. BTW, I'm NOT a BCM fan boy, I like them, but I own Colts, BCM, LMT, etc.

Just adding to the knowledge base with the cut and paste---and I don't care what a guy shoots as long as he doesn't shoot it at me---might tend to get a bit p---ed off

what about your Sig line is an important read? NRA, FFL, or Purdue grad?

I've been licensed as a gunsmith since 1980

Steve

 

[aaron580]

FTR, BCM is not anderson. Anderson claims milspec on parts, yet i have yet to see a good anderson part. Bcm on the other hand? Built by them or not, its quality, and different than other "milspec" parts. That being said ive been using a crap load of kac and colt parts recently, not expanse

 

[boman]

BCM is not anderson. Anderson claims milspec on parts, yet i have yet to see a good anderson part.

absolutely, Anderson is Anderson and BCM is BCM. difference is that Anderson manufactures uppers and lowers in house(they are a machining company that manufactures some of their own Ar-15 parts and BCM just buys theirs outsourced which usually means you pay will pay more. Anderson got into the Ar business with a contract from Colt, when that expired/lapsed they went on their own.

Steve

 

[Vigilant]

A small cut and paste from Vuurwapenblog circa 2010.

BCM bolts and barrels are individually proof tested (this is done with a single high pressure round and is called HP testing) before being magnafluxed (also known as MP testing) for surface irregularities.

 

[Trigger Time]

absolutely, Anderson is Anderson and BCM is BCM. difference is that Anderson manufactures uppers and lowers in house(they are a machining company that manufactures some of their own Ar-15 parts and BCM just buys theirs outsourced which usually means you pay will pay more. Anderson got into the Ar business with a contract from Colt, when that expired/lapsed they went on their own.

Steve

yes part of this is true. One of the owners of Anderson told me directly that they used to make colts receivers then they decided hey let's make our own.
But make no mistake. They made colts receivers to colts contract standards with the government. Andersons are not colts. Not even close.
Now anderson does have a couple different options. One is their receivers that claim to not need lube because of their proprietary coating. You're a sucker if you believe that. Also they cost a lot more

 

[boman]

A small cut and paste from Vuurwapenblog circa 2010.

BCM bolts and barrels are individually proof tested (this is done with a single high pressure round and is called HP testing) before being magnafluxed (also known as MP testing) for surface irregularities.

didn't have to go that far back---says the same thing on their webpage

Steve

 

[Vigilant]

didn't have to go that far back---says the same thing on their webpage

Steve

The question was raised as to whether they did testing on each one!

 

[halfmileharry]

I recently saw some Anderson uppers and lowers with the Cerra Keyhole stamp on them.
Apparently Anderson has someone else build them parts on occasion.