DNR Clarification, whats legal and whats not

[17 squirrel]

All of those calibers that they show as now 'legal' for hunting deer, is great, But I will never understand them not including my BEST big game rifles, WIN 70 in .270, and REMMY .25-06.

Hummmmm.. I never knew Whitetails and smaller were BIG GAME...

 

[whiteoak]

I am pleased by the liberal scope of DNR's clarification, based on the wording of the bill signed by Pence...but am too surprised at the inclusion of 7.62x39 and 7.62x54R given their nominal bullet diameter is .312.

30 Carbine will be fine, its energy is practically identical to a 357 Magnum carbine which is already legal as a PCR...and I'd like to think the type of person that would choose to hunt deer with a M1 Carbine would be more proficient than the average bear...

I'm sure if one were to put a 30 carbine soft point into a deer at inside 100 yards it would work if you don't miss the sweet spot. But it's not a deer cartridge and if your trying to be fair to the deer should not be on the list.
I would also have liked to see the 7.62x39 omitted from the list just to keep the cheep SKS's, and AK's out of the woods. Not sure they are "Deer Gun's" either. Yes a hunter who knows what he is doing can make the 7.62x39 a deer killer, but just short loading a 30rd mag to 10 rounds and taking an AK out as a deer rifle? I can see some issues with this one.

 

[17 squirrel]

It amazes me that two cartridge's that killed 10's of thousands of men in the last 75 years would be considered a poor choice to kill a deer.

 

[whiteoak]

It amazes me that two cartridge's that killed 10's of thousands of men in the last 75 years would be considered a poor choice to kill a deer.

I clearly think that both rounds will kill deer, but not the best choices. Hell the 7.62x39 is probably the No 1 elephant killer in the world right now giving the poaching issues in Africa. I am looking at this from the perspective that we as hunters are going to go through a "judgment period" with how we handle rifles for deer in Indiana. And my kids will either be back to what we had, or be able to use rifles, based on how the DNR judges we as hunters do with rifles in the next few years. I just want to see the new law become permanent, and complaints about wounded deer, and guys out with AK's and maybe even AR's could be intimidating the uninformed will hurt us as hunters. I don't care what you use so long as you do so with respect toward the game hunted and make clean kills. And most of us could do that if necessary with .22 long rifles. I'm not worried about those kinds of hunters. I'm worried about what the "bad eggs" will do and how that will reflect on the rest of us.

 

[GREEN607]

Hummmmm.. I never knew Whitetails and smaller were BIG GAME...

SMALL game, to me, is rabbits, squirrels, coon, fox, etc. So yes, deer is big game.... unless you're hunting elk, moose or, in Africa....

Sq17.... Not to be argumentative, but since you brought it up:

Come November, let's you and I go deer hunting together. I'll get my DEER LICENSE, and you just take your SMALL GAME license. And after we each bag a deer, we'll go to the nearest DNR station..... and let them decide if deer are "small game". How'd that be?

 

[oldpink]

I'm glad that was clarified this soon.
And I'm somewhat surprised the Russian cartridges are included.
I have some misgivings about the .30 Carbine.
I realize that deer have been taken with everything from .22 shorts to elephant guns, But the .30 Carbine is fairly weak as far as kinetic energy.
I like the .30 Carbine, the cartridge and the guns, but I wouldn't chose one to deer hunt.

I would agree, but it's worth mentioning that .30 Carbine has been legal out of handguns ever since handguns for deer were originally legalized for deer in Indiana in the 1980s; which will generally give at least 100-200 fps less muzzle velocity with identical ammo as out of a rifle/carbine length barrel.

Edit: You're also dead on right about how far bullet technology has progressed in the years since Jack O'Connor.
With the now aging Nosler Partition, plus the Barnes TSX, Hornady GMX, Hornady LeverRevolution, Speer Gold Dot, and dozens of other innovations, we shooters have never had it so good.

 

[JimH]

SMALL game, to me, is rabbits, squirrels, coon, fox, etc. So yes, deer is big game.... unless you're hunting elk, moose or, in Africa....

Sq17.... Not to be argumentative, but since you brought it up:

Come November, let's you and I go deer hunting together. I'll get my DEER LICENSE, and you just take your SMALL GAME license. And after we each bag a deer, we'll go to the nearest DNR station..... and let them decide if deer are "small game". How'd that be?

That or drag a 200+ lb. deer a couple hundred yards thru brush or uphill!

 

[M4Madness]

I would agree, but it's worth mentioning that .30 Carbine has been legal out of handguns ever since handguns for deer were originally legalized for deer in Indiana in the 1980s.

Not picking on you, but the .30 Carbine cartridge has always been forbidden for deer in a pistol, even though it meets the case length and bullet diameter criteria.

 

[halfmileharry]

I've never understood the thinking of any Govt agency so my thoughts are...."Hey, MORE CHOICES" and I'm going to leave it at that.

 

[rhino400]

What I don't understand is the 16" barrel length requirement. Does that mean legally owned SBRs are excluded? So I can't used my 10.5" 300 Blackout SBR but I can use my 7.5" 300 Blackout pistol? That's weird to me. I know I can swap uppers and use the 10.5" on the pistol lower but that part of the law seems stupid.

 

[avboiler11]

Yeah, it is stupid you can legally use a 10.5" 300BLK on a pistol lower but not on a SBR'd lower...but it is what it is.

 

[MRP2003]

Have to agree with several people through this blog. Omitting the 270 and 25-06 along with the 444 Marlin and 45-70 seems like someone was just trying to difficult and leaving the 30 carbine & 7.62x39 as legal for deer seems to be another decision to create perceived issues. Uneducated people are going to be screaming about the how dangerous it is to go hunting now that we are using assault weapons to hunt deer.

I am disappointed that I cannot use my 325 WSSM rifle this year in Indiana though my 300 WM and 308 should get to see the woods a little more this year.

Overall, I am very happy with the change.

 

[junk]

if using a suppressor on a SBR , would that make it legal ?

 

[oldpink]

Not picking on you, but the .30 Carbine cartridge has always been forbidden for deer in a pistol, even though it meets the case length and bullet diameter criteria.

Where?
The way that the law has been written as far as I can see is the standard .243 diameter bullet and 1.16" case length minimums are the standard for handguns.
.30 Carbine is 1.29" long and .308 diameter bullet.
What am I missing here?

 

[avboiler11]

if using a suppressor on a SBR , would that make it legal ?

Not unless it is permanently attached to the barrel.

 

[Willie]

Gents,

The DNR could NOT change the law as written and passed... They had to go with exactly what the legislators passed. They could not add to or delete anything. Thus the mixed bag. This is what you get when you have politicians involved in game rule making...


,

 

[17 squirrel]

SMALL game, to me, is rabbits, squirrels, coon, fox, etc. So yes, deer is big game.... unless you're hunting elk, moose or, in Africa....

Sq17.... Not to be argumentative, but since you brought it up:

Come November, let's you and I go deer hunting together. I'll get my DEER LICENSE, and you just take your SMALL GAME license. And after we each bag a deer, we'll go to the nearest DNR station..... and let them decide if deer are "small game". How'd that be?

Lol... I don't need a license, I'm a land Barron..and no I would not go hunting with you...its nothing personal, I just don't hunt with anyone I don't know..

 

[17 squirrel]

That or drag a 200+ lb. deer a couple hundred yards thru brush or uphill!

That's one of the reasons man invented 500 & 700cc Polaris 4 wheelers.

 

[RMC]

Lol... I don't need a license, I'm a land Barron..and no I would not go hunting with you...its nothing personal, I just don't hunt with anyone I don't know..

Hi, my name is Mark. Now that we know each other, can I hunt with you?

 

[avboiler11]

Gents,

The DNR could NOT change the law as written and passed... They had to go with exactly what the legislators passed. They could not add to or delete anything.

And to their credit, they went with the most liberal interpretation of the language that was signed into law.

This is not "perfect", nor is it "ideal"...but it *is* a significant step forward toward for Indiana sportsmen and women after DNR punted last year in the face of last-minute opposition in the form of urban non-hunters, hunters who dislike change and don't want more hunters going after "their" deer, and the FUD crowd crowing about decimated deer herds, stray bullets, and innocent blood flowing in the streets.

I am glad the citizen-elected Legislature stepped in to move the football down the field toward the goal of achieving the DNR 2015 proposal of anything 6mm or greater with a case length at least 1.16" long.

Let's be glad for the progress achieved and work over the next 5 years toward getting the "in between" chamberings permitted.