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Dispelling the ‘Few Extremists’ Myth – the Muslim World Is Overcome with Hate
- Thread starter GodFearinGunTotin
- Start date
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I know a little about Islam and I know something about Muslims. I have family members who are Islamic converts. I'll tell you the same thing I tell them:
The Koran commands that you deal with Infidels by killing them. Is this not correct? Just answer yes or no. Is something out of context here? Please advise as if this is not the case I stand corrected
If you are truly a Muslim here is what I see: Your "brothers and sisters" commit acts that are disgusting and vile. People are killed in the most inhumane ways because they are regarded as "Infidals" or Non-believers. The sane world is threatened by the insane beliefs of a group that controls and commands by fear, murder and destruction. And what do I hear from the "peace loving Muslim community"? ............................... Nothing............But............Crickets............
As a Christian, if I had a large chunk of my fellow believers who were this far out of control and giving my faith a bad name I would be assembling a force to deal with the unacceptable behavior. I would do everything in my power to stop this nonsense. Instead, I hear nothing from the larger Muslim community and see nothing that resembles an effort to stop the violence or bloodshed. I hear no voices in the media other than the looney left. If nothing else, I see the Muslim community anxious to run to the "free countries" where they can hide and exercise their faith, taking advantages of the freedoms won by others.
I personally believe that if the Muslim community was tossed out of this country (yep, all 6.8 million of you) this garbage would be over in 90-days. At a minimum, stop all immigration from the middle east and all Muslim countries. Does hearing that **** you off? It should. But until someone comes along with some intestinal fortitude and guts that probably won't happen. But then again, when they keep killing and murdering and we have Donald Trump running for president, well ***** might happen. You might be quite surprised at how things may change.
Should you leave? I don't know. In a previous post, I asked if you were Muslim and why the silence. You side stepped the question by asking me what I was doing to solve the problem. I will say that I have great respect for you as a law enforcement officer, I thank you for your service to our country and I respect your opinion. But I repeat my question: Why the silence? Why no action? Why nothing. The Muslim community is making their bed. And it's a mighty uncomfortable one.
indiucky
Grandmaster
Short answer is no....I constantly rail against illegal aliens but many of mi amigos are Hispanic. My wife's mother and father hail from Argentina..I love me some Jesus but two guys I admire and enjoy chatting with here are Atheists...I guarantee you that Jamil and I could hang together all day without a cross word....
I just read a post here on this thread where someone was disparaging of Hoosiers because of the gay rights issue and that we are somehow backward hillbillies that learn what our parents taught us and can't grasp diversity....I am not mad at him/her for thinking that..It's an opinion like ones I throw out here all of the time....You ought to hear my wife and I go at it when she does one of her Catholic moves and I look at her and say something like "My Papaw would roll over in his grave if he knew my bride was practicing witchcraft in this house...Let me guess? We are going to light a candle now ain't we.." She just throws a loving "FU hillbilly...Your just mad because your churches look like log cabins..Oh wait..That's right. They are log cabins." And then we both bust out laughing...
You are my friend...Because your wife is married to you she is my friend as well...We are both a couple of hilljacks that married up and that's just a fact...You are putting too much weight on your shoulders brother.....
We both "rock our soul in the bosom of Abraham" to borrow a line from Emmylou and that's good enough for me...Don't you dare leave INGO...How else can I feel safe carrying a revolver without you showing us real word statistics of the actual number of shots fired in a gun fight? Stay strong, keep educating, and keep fighting the good fight...
Remember this....You are Ohio Valley Hilljack and I have met your father..."Quit" just ain't in your DNA....
IMHO of course....
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Welcome to Indiana.
There's your Hoosier Hospitality. See, even though you basically insulted my upbringing, my family, and societal norms, I'm still welcoming. If I was half the backwards hick that you just insinuated the majority of us are, I'd have told you to go **** yourself. But, I didn't.
Let your conscience be your guide. I would not relish the idea of you leaving and I get why you, married to someone of ME descent (and presumably muslim), feel a need to defend her. But just as criticisms towards Westboro Baptist church folks reflect none-whatsoever up me, as a Christian, if your wife and her family are those that reject the radical islamist stuff we're confronting, then that criticism does not reflect upon her/them---at least as far as I (and I bet a lot of other folks) am/are concerned.
Most, decent people realize not all people of the muslim faith are suicide bombers and infidel killers just waiting for their turn. But muslims have a problem. The people they put up to represent them (or the people the press go to to get their reactions) often say things or the actions they take or the organizations they support that propagate what appears to be the Jew hating, sharia loving, Muslim Brotherhood stereotype that has become ingrained in many a American's awareness. If your wife is none of these, I can see why you bridle when it appears that everyone is lumping her into that same group.
Most, decent people realize not all people of the muslim faith are suicide bombers and infidel killers just waiting for their turn. But muslims have a problem. The people they put up to represent them (or the people the press go to to get their reactions) often say things or the actions they take or the organizations they support that propagate what appears to be the Jew hating, sharia loving, Muslim Brotherhood stereotype that has become ingrained in many a American's awareness. If your wife is none of these, I can see why you bridle when it appears that everyone is lumping her into that same group.
BehindBlueI's
Grandmaster
- Oct 3, 2012
- 26,608
- 113
Then I would encourage you to look past the media accounts. People being peaceful and not doing anything rarely make the news. If everything you knew about black people was from the media, what would you think of black people? The Koran encourages understanding and protection of "People of the Book", which encompasses most religions prior to Islam. Mohammed's original "tribe" was noteworthy as it contained multiple faiths.
That's why I'm considering leaving. I've gotten messages to just ignore the threads, but I have a duty to make the world a better place. The duty to inform people of the truth of Islam is one of the duties of jihad (no suicide vest required, stand down Kirk). However at this point I'm not sure I'm doing any good or just tormenting myself to stay. If I were a better person I would continue to fight regardless, but this is truly draining sometimes. It is difficult, which is of course the point of jihad, to struggle to make things better. If I stay I feel obligated to speak out. If I leave, I've failed but there's only so much struggle I'm able to dedicate to this. It has been fantastic practice at keeping my temper, though, so at least on that point it's been successful.
I've addressed this multiple times. One, where are you looking? Do I need to call you up and say "I don't agree with this" or I'm guilty by association. I'll assume you are white. Did you phone up black people you know after the jackwagon killed a bunch of people in a black church to let them know you didn't think that was cool? Are white people who didn't now complicit if they didn't get media attention saying "racism is bad and shooting people based on race is bad?" Additionally, who is the TARGET of most radical Muslim attacks? Muslims. So, you think the people being killed by ISIS aren't condemning ISIS because the media isn't showing you an anti-ISIS protest? When you think about it, do you see how absolutely absurd the logic is? Spend a few minutes with Google and you'll find plenty of Muslims condemning radicals, programs designed to deradicalize youth, charities for the victims of their violence, etc.
That's so stupid and easy to dispel I won't bother to give examples to correct you. Spend a few seconds looking at narcotics related terrorism, tribal related terrorism, territory dispute related terrorism, etc and there's plenty to be found were religion isn't an issue or there's no Muslim in the fight, period.
Don't leave the forum. There are plenty here who irritate me (for other reasons) and I stay.
It's not simple irritation. I can put irritating people on block lists or just ignore them. It's a duty to correct misinformation about Islam, though. Again, if I leave I failed but it's very tiring to continue.
Me? No. I think 2 years ago religious discussion was still banned and the atmosphere wasn't quite right for a Republican front runner to call for closing the borders based on religious tests. I'm still waiting for the "natural rights" folks to speak to that as affecting their views on the candidate.
I certainly get that. If I were gay, I'd have probably bailed a long time ago. Speaking of a culture of hate.
Well, I can't just answer yes or no and then advise. I'll assume you want me to do both.
No.
There is certainly death and killing in the Quran, and sometimes at the express command of God or Mohammed. The Abrahamic God has never been a pacifist. This is the God that flooded the world, as you'll recall. Sometimes people need killing.
BehindBlueI's
Grandmaster
- Oct 3, 2012
- 26,608
- 113
Right. Because when people talk about Westboro, they talk about Westboro. They don't say "Christians need to reform their religion" and then use Westboro as the reason why.
I'm curious as to where you've looked for positive Muslim stories. Seriously. It's like Rambone posting every negative police story he can find.
#NotInMyName: American Muslim community rallies against extremism - CBS News
Who's posting about this guy?
Muslim leader calling for D.C. anti-ISIS rally | Boston Herald
Or this guy?
I see plenty of messages about Muslims need to condemn terrorist attacks, but not much on gun owners needing to condemn this sort of thing:
Meanwhile, in Texas, assault rifle-wielding protesters held a completely legal demonstration outside a mosque
American Muslims are fighting extremism (Opinion) - CNN.com
Within days of the Boston Marathon bombing, I wrote an article for CNN titled, "I'm Muslim and I hate terrorism," making it clear that this terrorist attack was despicable and not in any way representative of Islam. I felt compelled to write after what I'd heard the year before, while traveling the country directing a comedy documentary. Some of it really shocked me.As we were making "The Muslims Are Coming!" we spoke to people of all different backgrounds and discovered that the No. 1 issue troubling them about Muslim Americans was that they didn't hear us denouncing terrorist acts perpetrated by Muslims.
Dean Obeidallah
At first I was surprised by such responses. After all, I knew firsthand that American Muslim groups had vocally condemned every such incident. But the reality was that most people still had not heard this condemnation, in part due to our media business model, under which sensationalism sells and thoughtful denunciations don't.
Or this guy?
Muslims against terrorism and extremism | Free Muslims Coalition
Or organizations such as this?
Seriously, these are on the first page of Google returns. This isn't hard to find if you look for both sides instead of just media sources that are feeding a narrative. Yet all we get is negative posts. Tiresome.
BehindBlueI's
Grandmaster
- Oct 3, 2012
- 26,608
- 113
Welcome to Indiana.
See, even though you basically insulted my upbringing, my family, and societal norms, I'm still welcoming. If I was half the backwards hick that you just insinuated the majority of us are, I'd have told you to go **** yourself. But, I didn't.
Indiana is my home, as much as anywhere is. Outside of the echo chambers of internet forums, I've been mostly welcomed everywhere. I'll admit I was nervous bringing my first wife home to Scott County. It made the population of blacks in the county exactly 1. We never had an issue, though, not once. That's in a county that used to have a few Klan idiots show up to pass out fliers at the main stop light. (Yes, it's a small town).
You'd never have known it from some of the posts on INGO during the gay marriage debate, though.
What you actually have shown is how incredibly ignorant you are.
Yes, and no. If you study Islam you will find both. Unlike Protestant Christianity and the Bible, Islam does not refer to the Qur'an as the single authoritative source. A penitent Muslim must also consider the hadith, and personal reflection (prayer) before considering an answer to a moral question "final". More than a billion and a half people on our planet embrace Islam while rejecting Wahhabism, which is the source of "extremist Islam"...but a well-read and worldly guy like you already knew that...right?
If you are truly a worthwhile human being you will take your fingers out of your ears and stop looking for a fight...Maybe if you started listening you'd hear. Western Muslims have condemned every attack since before 9/11, to anyone who will listen.
Believe it or not, most Eastern Muslims are too busy feeding themselves to care about the fights of the western world. Wait...you already knew that. You know muslims.
As a Christian you are too blinded by bias to see your own shortcomings. There are plenty of Christians trying to shove their views, unwanted, down the throats of their fellow citizens. You are one of those.
Well, I personally believe you don't know your ass from a hole in the ground. How would you go about "tossing out" an entire group of people based on personal ideology? And just how would you keep someone from using that same power to ouster your religious group? Have you thought this through at all?
Wait...what am I thinking...of course you have. You know stuff!
No. BBI shouldn't leave. You should. You are a bigot. You are small-minded and wrong. You are a disgrace to INGO, Indiana, America, and the human race. Whe it comes to "making their bed" the only one doing that is you.
People, often people on here on this site--you know the ones, often blame the woes of the country and the world on the actions of people lumped in with all Christians. They conflate what the message and the charge of Christ was/is with what people in the areas where Christianity is the dominate religion do.
Refering to the above, it's like they don't look for the stories where churches go help the needy, donate money to bring refugees out of persecution, etc.
#NotInMyName: American Muslim community rallies against extremism - CBS News
Who's posting about this guy?
Muslim leader calling for D.C. anti-ISIS rally | Boston Herald
Or this guy?
I see plenty of messages about Muslims need to condemn terrorist attacks, but not much on gun owners needing to condemn this sort of thing:
Meanwhile, in Texas, assault rifle-wielding protesters held a completely legal demonstration outside a mosque
American Muslims are fighting extremism (Opinion) - CNN.com
Or this guy?
Muslims against terrorism and extremism | Free Muslims Coalition
Or organizations such as this?
Seriously, these are on the first page of Google returns. This isn't hard to find if you look for both sides instead of just media sources that are feeding a narrative. Yet all we get is negative posts. Tiresome.
I don't have an answer. But I stand by what I said, muslims have a problem. They need to figure out how to change the narrative.
BehindBlueI's
Grandmaster
- Oct 3, 2012
- 26,608
- 113
I don't have many better friends than you, that's a fact. I just really want you to understand how burdensome it's become. Illegal aliens and hispanics are different topics. I'd build a wall at the border in a heart beat, but legal worker visas and folks here playing by the rules are 100% welcome to try for the American Dream. The Burmese, I don't even know what religion those cats are, but if they learn to yield on a left turn they are here legally and are 100% welcome to the American Dream as well. Seriously, though, Trump feels comfortable enough to call for a complete ban on Muslims traveling here? That's tough, man. That's not some conehead passing out fliers, that's a legitimate political power making a religious test for entry into the US.
Your wife and you are joking, though, folks here aren't. Some are dead set Islam is evil. Some are unwilling or unable to simply say "ISIS" instead of "Muslims" or the like, and even when it's pointed out apparently don't see how offensive that is.
It's grating, man. It's tough not to start going into a siege mentality when constantly subjected to the message here. I get enough stress at work, which is also a duty as the strong must protect the weak, and sometimes you have to pick your battles.
BBI, you can leave...or you can stay. In America you have that freedom, it's called the freedom of association. It's deep one of those pesky government form somewhere next to the sentence about freedom of religion. I for one have not seen anything redeeming about the Muslim religion. I'm sure there is something worthwhile in it but, I don't care to look either. I'll admit that I know little to nothing of the Koran or Islam in general. I believe that it's a path for destruction for this country. So you can begin to rant on me about me being close-minded and that I do not understand and I will not give an inch in faith.
BehindBlueI's
Grandmaster
- Oct 3, 2012
- 26,608
- 113
Ok. We have a problem because you can't be bothered to spend 15 seconds on Google to find stories like I just showed you?
Do you perhaps see the irony in putting the onus on us to make you read things that are freely available in media outlets? Why is it not your problem to quit furthering the negative narrative and doing just a tiny bit of research before swallowing whatever Briebart or the like tells you?
Spear Dane
Grandmaster
Perhaps it would help if you stopped looking at what you do as fighting and considered it teaching instead. Your students are dazed, confused and many are SCARED. A few are simply phobic and beyond reach. Patience is required. Lots of patience.
BehindBlueI's
Grandmaster
- Oct 3, 2012
- 26,608
- 113
Ok. You know nothing about it but have made a negative determination about it. At least your honest in your ignorance. I'm completely ignorant of Shinto, personally, and don't care to learn about it. That's not close minded, that's just the realization you can't know everything and only have so much time to learn. The difference is I try not to form opinions on things I don't know anything about. Sometimes it's tough. Global warming is a tough one for me, I don't know enough to really understand it but I feel like I ought to.
I'm not here to convert anyone. Talk to Indiucky. Other than a bit of talking about Moses, as I brought his wife some rocks from Moses' trail in Jordan, I don't think we've ever once talked religion. I'm not even a real good example to anyone, but I try to make the truth known and folks can choose as they see fit.
It's sort of like if someone feeds you a cowpie and tells you it's chocolate, you really didn't get to decide if you like chocolate or not. That choice was stolen from you by false information. If you try real chocolate and just don't like chocolate, or are happier with vanilla, that's fine. The important thing is to choose a just life and to try to make the world a better place. Frankly, it's one of the main things that attracted to me to Islam is correct practices are more important than correct beliefs. Be just, be charitable, don't be a dick, and you're a-ok with me regardless.
Quite obviously, the political class, in this case, Trump, is succeeding with one of their favorite tools. Find a division and exploit it. Race, religion, political party, whatever they can use. We become divided and we weaken. Our weakness strengthens them. I mean, look at us. One of the most stand up guys on this site, whose post quality is so high he should be given site supporter status, serves his community, on and on, is at serious odds with people that would otherwise enjoy his company, possibly pay him for training, and enjoy a shared hobby, cheeseburger or brew together. We don't have a Muslim problem in this country. We have an ISIS, Obama and Trump problem. (That is not to equate the three, don't misunderstand me.)
You have the same sort of problem that people condemn all catholics because of what a few priests did. Many catholics (some of which are working to resettle Syrian refugees right now), priests included, do a lot of work to help the less fortunate but all we hear about is how the pope is a socialist or priests are pedophiles...because people will not spend 15 seconds on Google to find stories that show them doing good.
The Catholic church does stuff though that keeps the narrative going -- just like you muslims do.
(I didn't know you professed to be muslim until now but whatever floats your boat is fine with me).
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