Did world war 3 just start?

[Kutnupe14]

https://www.militarytimes.com/news/...nd-wont-stop-until-it-has-choked-out-ukraine/

I think this is pretty much spot on. Russia can creep a buffer along the Sea of Azov to connect the Crimean peninsula without needing the Kerch Strait.

What are those rifles in the picture? Looks like something made by HK. G36?

 

[T.Lex]

Looks like that to me, but those are the laser-paintball training kits, I think.

I also don't put much stock in the captions when it comes to identifying stuff like what is described there.

 

[Brad69]

Roger on the G36

The Army is testing several different types of rifles.
I shot a German G36 in Afghanistan it’s a water hose on full auto the most controlled full auto I have fired.

That’s the MILES gear lasers on them most of the NATO countries have the same gear.


BTW

H&K is second only to SIG on courting the Army with free swag, range demos and such.

 

[Kutnupe14]

Roger on the G36

The Army is testing several different types of rifles.
I shot a German G36 in Afghanistan it’s a water hose on full auto the most controlled full auto I have fired.

That’s the MILES gear lasers on them most of the NATO countries have the same gear.


BTW

H&K is second only to SIG on courting the Army with free swag, range demos and such.

I love the look those things.

 

[Thor]

https://www.stripes.com/news/navy-s...7.01.19&utm_term=Editorial - Early Bird Brief

US Navy FON in the Black Sea.

 

[Hawkeye]

https://www.stripes.com/news/navy-s...7.01.19&utm_term=Editorial - Early Bird Brief

US Navy FON in the Black Sea.

So, without reading the article, will this include a Kerch passage and Sea of Azov?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[T.Lex]

No - not the sea of Azov for this FON.

 

[ArcadiaGP]

Russia says Ukraine may no longer be a country soon

 

[Dimik]

It's curious that Russia is the biggest importer (buyer) of Ukrainian arms. Makes one wonder, if this was war and invasion, as they claim, why would they be selling arms to the enemy?

 

[T.Lex]

It's curious that Russia is the biggest importer (buyer) of Ukrainian arms. Makes one wonder, if this was war and invasion, as they claim, why would they be selling arms to the enemy?

Where does this information come from?

Russia bought some big ticket items from Ukraine to prevent them from ending up in the US or other western nations. There's some indigenous tech in the Ukraine that is somewhat specific to Soviet-designed weapons.

Otherwise, I believe the US is a big importer of Ukrainian stuff. Perhaps more importantly, Ukraine is an importer of our stuff.

Откуда вы?

 

[Dimik]

Where does this information come from?

Russia bought some big ticket items from Ukraine to prevent them from ending up in the US or other western nations. There's some indigenous tech in the Ukraine that is somewhat specific to Soviet-designed weapons.

Otherwise, I believe the US is a big importer of Ukrainian stuff. Perhaps more importantly, Ukraine is an importer of our stuff.

Откуда вы?

According to the Stockholm International Peace Research Institute. You can look up the import/export tables. According to them, it's Russia and China who are the biggest buyers of Ukrainian arms. US imports so little, it doesn't even show up in the database. Though, would you, given the choice between German, French, and Ukrainian production? Anyway, here's the latest report https://www.sipri.org/sites/default/files/2018-03/fssipri_at2017_0.pdf

 

[T.Lex]

Much depends on the date range. That report appears to include pre-2014 sales in the numbers.

Other resources:
https://www.globalsecurity.org/military/world/russia/industry-ua.htm

The Ukrainian defense industry sent about 30 percent of its exports to Russia. Ukrainian First Vice-President Vitaly Yarema stated 04 April 2014 that the new Ukrainian government had agreed to halt exports of weapons and military equipment to Russia. At the same time, he confirmed that deliveries of double-purpose (military and civil) products still continue. "It's complete madness to make products for Russia that will then be directed against us, and such a decision has already been made by the prime minister that we are ending military cooperation with Russia," he said.
He noted that Ukraine traditionally was very actively cooperating with Russia in the military-industrial complex and that many companies that produce military goods exported to Russia were operating in Ukraine. The abrupt end to such cooperation with Russia will trigger serious losses for the Ukrainian economy, he added. In this regard, Yarema said, serious work is currently being conducted to find other markets for Ukrainian defense products. In particular, the government planned to redirect exports to eastern markets, he said.
Kyiv continued to supply to Moscow so-called dual-use goods - parts for military equipment and other items that are not formally weapon, but are used in the Russian army. In the near future the government promised to stop this kind of cooperation too, and redirect the national defense industry to other countries and its own army.
Vladimir Putin met with members of the Federal Assembly’s Council of Legislators on 28 April 2014. "Our defence industry cooperation with our Ukrainian partners is very important for Russia’s defence sector, but it is of absolutely crucial importance for Ukraine’s defence industry.

Of course, Russia understands this, too. Depriving Ukraine of the export market helps put economic pressure on them.

https://www.rt.com/russia/438432-russia-completes-replacement-ukrainian/

(September 2018)

The Russian defense industry has completed the replacement of Ukraine-produced products needed for the production of weapons and military hardware by Russia-produced analogues, a senior Russian official says.
“The question of [Russia’s] dependence on deliveries from Ukraine has been closed and it is now closed for good. All vulnerable points that we really had in 2014 are now in the past,” Russian Deputy Prime Minister for Defense Yuri Borisov said.

Borisov said the major replacement programs concern engines for Russian helicopters, previously produced by Ukrainian company Motor Sich, and turbines for navy ship engines. These parts are now being produced by Russian companies NPO Saturn and ODK Klimov. He added that before 2014, Ukrainian companies supplied a lot of electronic components for Russian-made weapons, but that these deliveries were not crucial as most concerned spare parts for products made in Soviet times.

 

[Dimik]

All in all, I think this conflict will last a long time and will prevent Ukraine from getting it's business in order. It's sad, really, such wealth of natural resources, shamelessly robbed from its people by its leaders since it first came into being in 1991. Could easily become one of the wealthiest nations, but I doubt it ever will. Not with the leadership they have. Combine that with the general unwillingness of the people to participate in this mess (11 thousand deserters in 2018 alone), and the rise of neo-nazism with government support (monuments and streets being named after SS officers, or commanders of the forces that carried out Polish ethnic cleansing in 1943) creates tension with its neighbors (Poland especially, oh they're very angry), as well as between west-east-south populations within Ukraine itself. Now I've seen some reports of ISIS merc fighters being seen in the area to add to the "fun". Aside from that, armed conflicts are very expensive, and there's nowhere to generate enough money other than borrowing and that can only go so far. It's just a big mess. I wonder who's really benefitting from this. Really benefitting. I can see some "benefit" to destabilizing the region, there's also some "moral benefit" to this to some groups within Ukraine, but it's not sustainable. Can't see Russia benefitting, as Ukraine was producing a huge share of the mechanized arms for them, so they had to quickly get the tools out of there as soon as it all started, and starting production at a different location is time consuming and costly. Ukraine itself is not getting anything out of this. Hmmmm.

 

[Dimik]

Much depends on the date range. That report appears to include pre-2014 sales in the numbers.

Other resources:
https://www.globalsecurity.org/military/world/russia/industry-ua.htm



Of course, Russia understands this, too. Depriving Ukraine of the export market helps put economic pressure on them.

https://www.rt.com/russia/438432-russia-completes-replacement-ukrainian/

(September 2018)

Yes true. You can look up numbers by year on their website, and it looks like China is starting to become the biggest importer.

 

[T.Lex]

I wonder who's really benefitting from this. Really benefitting. I can see some "benefit" to destabilizing the region, there's also some "moral benefit" to this to some groups within Ukraine, but it's not sustainable. Can't see Russia benefitting, as Ukraine was producing a huge share of the mechanized arms for them, so they had to quickly get the tools out of there as soon as it all started, and starting production at a different location is time consuming and costly. Ukraine itself is not getting anything out of this. Hmmmm.

Russia absolutely benefits from the destabilization, because it invites a stabilizing influence. Namely, Russia.

As you probably know, Ukraine was referred to as the breadbasket of the Soviet Union. Indeed, the people were highly productive, the land was (is?) rich in natural resources, and it was vitally important to the USSR's overall economy.

My sense is that Putin would love to have that back.

So, yes... there is a motivation to prevent Ukraine from getting its business in order.

Of course, part of the problem is democracy. Because Ukraine has significant cultural subdivisions (the primary one being the Russian-identifying population), they must all commit to working together for it to all work. And that's a tough thing to force.

It is easier to leverage those divisions for personal gain, and to create a centralized authority.

 

[Dimik]

Russia absolutely benefits from the destabilization, because it invites a stabilizing influence. Namely, Russia.

As you probably know, Ukraine was referred to as the breadbasket of the Soviet Union. Indeed, the people were highly productive, the land was (is?) rich in natural resources, and it was vitally important to the USSR's overall economy.

My sense is that Putin would love to have that back.

So, yes... there is a motivation to prevent Ukraine from getting its business in order.

Of course, part of the problem is democracy. Because Ukraine has significant cultural subdivisions (the primary one being the Russian-identifying population), they must all commit to working together for it to all work. And that's a tough thing to force.

It is easier to leverage those divisions for personal gain, and to create a centralized authority.

The breadbasket analogy goes back centuries to the time of the Russian Empire. Malorossiya (that's what Ukraine was called at the time) was the biggest grain and tobacco producer of the empire. Eastern Ukraine has very rich soil. Western, the part that's historically either belonged to Austria, Poland, Romania, you name it, pretty much only has mountains and skiing resorts of no big use. Central Russia has always had poor soil. The entire central plain is a gigantic peat marsh, so food has always been a problem. Just look up any of the Russo-Swedish wars, and you'll see that Russia had to buy bread from private Swedish merchants during the conflicts because there's just no way to grow enough domestically.
If they wanted to have it back that bad, they could have with ease. I just don't see it. Trade got hit pretty bad. As a result, Russia is now tied with Turkey and Iran for produce, and I don't know how anyone could call that a benefit. Gosh.
You're right about the ethnic and cultural subdivisions. One of the first laws the new government passed was the language law, and it's been buffed up with stricter regulation in the following years. By now, it is actually illegal to have literature in Russian, as well as to speak Russian on the television. All that, with something like 40% Russian population of the country, just somehow doesn't feel very unifying to me. It's like if California suddenly banned Spanish. Wonder how that would work.
Ethno-nationalism is a weak ideology and never leads to anything good. It's easy, but very suboptimal solution.
And then couple all that with the incredible corruption geared towards personal gain and centralized authority. Yeah, sad as it is, I'm afraid it's going to remain the Pakistan of Europe (I think it was some Dutch politician who called it that) for years and years to come.

 

[ArcadiaGP]

Pakistan 'shoots down two Indian jets' in Kashmir escalation

 

[BugI02]

Now if we could just get China to try to throw its weight around in the ongoing dispute such that they both turn on China, it could be a happy time

 

[AmmoManAaron]

India and Pakistan both mobilizing troops and some convoys are on the road. Videos of Indian and Pakistan tanks moving toward the border are up on Twitter. Indian Navy reportedly moving assets. Seems like something might actually kick off - very interesting.

 

[Dead Duck]

It's about time.
News was getting boring. So is Iran behind Pakistan or India? I can never keep up.