Did Law Change? Unreal incident at clinic...

[Udderchaos]

A recorder would have been nice. The OP should check with the clinic and find out if there is a video camera in the waiting room.

IMO the LEO's are getting caught doing the "bad cop" stuff more because 99% of the people these days have video on their phone. And most people want their fifteen minutes of fame for turning the video in to the media.

 

[Benny]

This with one amendment for me, I would have my Lawyer doing the Majority of the talking...

That's a great idea in theory, but I'm not rich and don't like wasting money.

This will get swept under the rug like all of the others.

 

[ajb]

This is why I always carry concealed.......

 

[Hoosierdood]

This is why I always carry concealed.......

 

[Wwwildthing]

I've been thinking about this post and I guess I see some others are coming to the same conclusion I am. These incidents, the way TSA operates and the recent NYPD response to the demonstrators on Wall Street are all beginning to create in people some bad feelings toward law enforcement in general. LE has a tough job and deal with some of the worst people on the planet and so deserve huge respect. But we also shouldn't have to live in fear of being wrongly jerked around by agitated and misinformed officers.

Well said and completely correct.

 

[serpicostraight]

I've read way too many posts like this on INGO and other forums. There has got to be some type of recourse for this situation. I completely support the authority of all LEOs but when they try to enforce laws that don't exist I have a problem. Police officers and troopers have a very stressful and dangerous job and they have every right to take steps to protect themselves. That being said, they still need to remember they are public servants and need to respect the rights of private citizens. We do pay their salaries and expect them to enforce the law in a professional manner. Every time an officer disrespects a law abiding citizen he needs to be reprimanded. I've said it before respect is a two way street. I would expect a reprimand if I treated someone in this manner at work.

keep chasing that dream. if cops got prosecuted for what they did we wouldnt have many left.

 

[cobber]

That's a great idea in theory, but I'm not rich and don't like wasting money.

This will get swept under the rug like all of the others.

Find a lawyer who will do it either on the principle of the question, or who will take it for a retainer (1/3 of what you recover). My guess is that once a suit is filed the city would try to settle for an 'undisclosed amount', although the bad PR for them would have a lasting effect.

I would also guess that the officers have immunity only for lawful acts, i.e., enforcing actual laws and not imaginary laws they dreamed up.

 

[Bubba]

I'm curious to learn about the false 911 call. Are the police citing the caller who stated the firearm was drawn?

I suppose the cop might have embellished a bit, given the rest of the horse**** that dribbled from his pie hole, but can he do that? I know there is no law stating LEOs must tell the truth at all times, but in the way it was used it seems like the cop said the reason the OP was being detained was because he had drawn his pistol. Can a LEO legally fabricate a reason to detain?

 

[mtgasten]

does anybody know where we can get wallet size portions of the IC that state that its not a concealed carry but that it is a LTCH....that way we can just whip it out and be like "read the law!" i swear its getting kinda ridiculous

 

[SirRealism]

does anybody know where we can get wallet size portions of the IC that state that its not a concealed carry but that it is a LTCH....that way we can just whip it out and be like "read the law!" i swear its getting kinda ridiculous

The law is silent on the matter, so you can't really quote anything saying it isn't CC. I believe you can find something published by the Indiana State Police somewhere... but it's technically not the law.

 

[mtgasten]

The law is silent on the matter, so you can't really quote anything saying it isn't CC. I believe you can find something published by the Indiana State Police somewhere... but it's technically not the law.

ok well...you get the point of what i was trying to say

 

[cobber]

I'm curious to learn about the false 911 call. Are the police citing the caller who stated the firearm was drawn?

I suppose the cop might have embellished a bit, given the rest of the horse**** that dribbled from his pie hole, but can he do that? I know there is no law stating LEOs must tell the truth at all times, but in the way it was used it seems like the cop said the reason the OP was being detained was because he had drawn his pistol. Can a LEO legally fabricate a reason to detain?

We don't know what the call to the police actually said. So that might show that the officer was lying, or perhaps he was misinformed. That would be a mistake of fact.

But the police argument with the poster was NOT that he should not wave guns around, which shows even the police knew that was not the case. Otherwise they would have arrested him for pointing and/or intimidation after drawing his weapon and would have taken witness statements. An examination of the police reports and listening to the call would clear that up.

The fact that Sgt. Schultz carried on and on about CC shows that there was no brandishing report, and that it was probably a 'fib'.

Or else there was such a report and the officers realized it was not true, in which case the person who made the report should have been arrested for False Informing. Which apparently did not happen.

Need to get the reports, depose the officers and the caller (the police will have the number of the person who reported, it's not protected information).

 

[ATM]

ok well...you get the point of what i was trying to say

In reality, the point is this: none of those officers would have taken a paper handed to them and taken the time to read it in the hopes of learning something new or being corrected.

Probably better to leave the burden of finding the fictitious law they're attempting to enforce on them during the encounter.
The correction will come later, when you point out their misguided failings to their supervisor or chief.

...Otherwise they would have arrested him for brandishing...

There is no code prohibiting "brandishing" in Indiana. Do not point it at a person, though, that's actually illegal.



I look forward to an update on the follow up complaint.

 

[ThrottleJockey]

These intimidation tactics are FAR too commonplace. I personally have been victim of uninformed and just plain wrong LEOs attempting to enforce make believe fairy tale laws in lieu of actually doing their job several times. It makes me want to .....every time it happens. The condescending attitude they display is super irritating, especially when they are SOOO wrong about issues that hold SOOOO much importance. I swear if one more pimple faced little twit with a badge ever tries this BS with me again........ It all boils down to them not having as much power and control as they would like so they try to play games with semantics of issues they don't fully comprehend. Then they get involved in a psychological battle with themselves and lose, leaving the scene with a sense of achievement however wrong they were or stupid they are. I especially love when they realize how ridiculous they sound in their contradictions, If you drag these confrontations out long enough eventually the LEO will start to do the math and you can usually tell when they've figured it out....that's when they try to end the discussion and wrap things up as quickly as possible making excuses the whole time.....


Seriously though, something MUST be done about this before things get ugly. The more we ALLOW them to push, the harder they will push. This can only go on so long before it is met with a shove and however immediately bad it could end up, I fear the long term effects could be far worse.

 

[Benny]

keep chasing that dream. if cops got prosecuted for what they did we wouldnt have many left.

I think we would have more than enough left.

 

[gunowner930]

This is riduculous. His job is to enforce existing laws, not make them up as he pleases. If there is little to no legal recourse, maybe we should start a thread (wall of shame) of rude LEOs who try to intimidate and do not know Indiana gun laws. Put their names, departments, and badge numbers out there for gun owners so we know which LEOs are problems.

 

[Udderchaos]

This is riduculous. His job is to enforce existing laws, not make them up as he pleases. If there is little to no legal recourse, maybe we should start a thread (wall of shame) of rude LEOs who try to intimidate and do not know Indiana gun laws. Put their names, departments, and badge numbers out there for gun owners so we know which LEOs are problems.

Not trying to pi$$ on anybody's Wheaties here. But, wouldn't a wall of shame be a liabilty for a wrongful something lawsuit.? Great idea though. I can just vision a person getting a "Wall-of-Shame LEO" contact... "Oh, it's YOU"

 

[KG1]

The one officer was pretty civil with me and was not strutting **** like the Sergeant was (who I am complaining about the most at this point). He told me all of his opinions on my right to carry but said that I CAN'T carry openly. "Not only are you not tactical, but you just can't do it anyway, it's illegal". "This is a CONCEALED, CARRY, PERMIT". These words are resonating..and it hurts.

I'd be interested to know why he let a felon go. How incompetent was he, exactly?

This all right here, among other statements that were made pretty much proves the point that SGT. Squarenutts was intentionally disseminating false information in the attempt to intimidate into submission a lawfully carrying individual. I'm pretty sure you could bet the farm that if all the outrageous claims as to the alledged illegal activities being perpetrated by the OP were known to be true he would probably still be sitting behind bars.

 

[b0r0b]

I will definitely keep you guys posted. I am going to the BMV after a meeting for work in the morning to get my address corrected on my license as I said I was going to. I want the 911 call, because the officer told me he had a report of me waving my gun around, which means they had a "right" to assume a crime was being committed and at the very least "question" me.

The officers would not let me get a word in. Every time I tried to break down the law or explain anything I was abruptly interrupted and told I was wrong. A "read this" card would do me or any of you no good. The officer wasn't even willing to read the LTCH that clearly states I just have to report my address, so why would he read anything else I have in my possession? I will be contacting a lawyer to see if I have a leg to stand on, whether that means I need the 911 call or not. (because they could have lied about the waving gun thing)

My guess is whoever called the police said I was flashing my gun around..which I came in with it OC, I never said "oh look at this". My biggest concern here is not with what happened to ME, it's what happened to my kids. So my 6 year old can go to school tomorrow and tell the teacher daddy got raided while we were at the doctor. My son missed 3 days of school last year and they threatened to have me put in jail/my license suspended..so god forbid my son tells them I was taken away by the police.

One of the biggest problems I have is, you just DON'T respond in this manner to a call like this. If the call was "There's a man with a gun waving it around in an alley behind a school!" I get it..not "I am at the clinic and there is a guy with a gun hugging his 4 year old because he is in pain, come quick!!". This whole thing has just got me twisted in every direction. I am going to see what I can do about video surveillance with a lawyer. I'll be getting a hold of one tomorrow to see what the situation is.

The question is, can I start this civil suit alone? I was detained against my will, pockets emptied and the cop grabbed my junk. Why are you treating law abiding citizens like criminals when 3 drug dealers just drove by with 46" rims and I work for a god damn living? The worst part? My father was a police officer for 22 years..I am practically extended family to these officers and it didn't mean ****. I am going to the college in the morning to change my major to auto mechanics..I don't want to be a part of this bull****.

My kids were petrified as were other kids in the place, but no one had a problem when I walked in with my gun. I know who called 911, atleast I assume it was the lady with her older son..no child was worried that I had a gun, and everyone in the place told my wife if she needed anything to let them know. Sounds bad, but I almost wish someone got robbed or something while 7 officers were holding me against my will...or **** it, I wish I would have been robbed so I could say oh would ya look at that? You made me bring my protection home and I was a victim. ****ing tired of this ****..My kids faces will repeat over and over and make this more painful than it was.

and then the one cop had the nerve to ask me how I liked my blackhawk holster..it's like really dude? You just told me I could never carry it again and you're going to ask about my $50 holster? go **** off somewhere.

 

[Hammerhead]

Breathe.

Count to ten.

Breathe.

PM Guy "TFT" Relford. If you have a problem finding him, look in the Evansville thread.