Democrats are afraid of violent backlash

[BloodEclipse]

It is incumbent upon the collective of our elected officials to vote their conscience and be true to their moral compass. It is a fallacy to assume that because 51% of the people in their district favor or oppose something, they are obligated to vote in that direction.

I agree, it is incumbent for them to vote their conscience and be guided by a moral compass.

However you have to be joking if you think that happened here.

Buying votes and intimidation are not following a moral compass. The Representatives did this for the Party and not the people and the people are mad.
There is nothing moral about forcing more of a burden upon productive citizens.

What recourse do the people have, when their elected officials disregard the will of the people? People are lashing out because their voice has been discounted.

 

[ghunter]

Hold on there, Turbo. I don't think you've thought this whole thing through very well. I know a lot of hardcore Repubs who's battle cry is "law and order," and your statement reminds me a lot of that.

Consider that in Germany at one time, it was a "crime" to help a Jewish person. In this country at one time, it was a "crime" for blacks to own guns, or learn to read. In the Soviet Union it was a "crime" to engage in 'counter-revolutionary activities,' which had a definition that varied from day to day. In China, it's a "crime" to be of a certain religion. In this country, it is often a "crime" to own both a shotgun AND a hacksaw. Now it will be a "crime" to NOT give your money to an insurance agency for healthcare. In China, it's a "crime" to gather to protest totalitarian government. In India, most of what Ghandi did was a "crime." It is a "crime" to buy two packages of a totally legal over-the-counter cold medicine. EVERY SIGNER of the Constitution was a CRIMINAL!!!! EVERY one of them had committed CRIMES!!

Are any of these "crimes" JUST? Hardly. Each is a great example of INJUSTICE forced on citizens by UNJUST laws. I would think that anyone screaming "law and order" when talking about society is more concerned with the "order" part than the laws. Justice is not even in the vocabulary.

There is a HUGE difference between the concepts of "crime" and "injustice." If you believe otherwise, then you must therefore believe that every law passed by our legislators is "just."

An impeccable argument. When I mention "crime" in this context, I'm talking about crimes against property and people. My motivation for what I said was to discourage others from behaving like the people from SEIU, PETA, ELF, etc. I don't want the freedom loving people to slide down the moral abyss that the other side has done so enthusiastically and unabashedly. The left is wrong, both rhetorically and morally. We are all that's left of this country, from a cultural standpoint. We need to hold fast to those values, keep the moral high ground, and let the slugs drown in their own slime.

On a side note: Hey moderators, is it too late to change my name to Turbo?

 

[jeremy]

An impeccable argument. When I mention "crime" in this context, I'm talking about crimes against property and people. My motivation for what I said was to discourage others from behaving like the people from SEIU, PETA, ELF, etc. I don't want the freedom loving people to slide down the moral abyss that the other side has done so enthusiastically and unabashedly. The left is wrong, both rhetorically and morally. We are all that's left of this country, from a cultural standpoint. We need to hold fast to those values, keep the moral high ground, and let the slugs drown in their own slime.

The unfortunate thing is that the "moral highground" approach does not work. Show me one time in history were it has...

The left is allowing people to basically conduct assymetrical warfare at the stage 1 level against us. And we are allowing it to happen. At some point in time you either have to fight your enemy or capitulte to them.

What we need to do NOW is elect our voices back into DC post haste. If not, if not it may become to late. Show the critters on the Hill that the people WILL replace them. They are currently operating under the assumption that there is nothing we can do to them once they are elected to that position. It is past time to show that the people are tired of career criminals lying to us.

 

[tnek]

Im in,,,,,,,,BTL

 

[Perm]

I've never seen such a massive inability to use simple logic on one thread. I guess that's what I get for posting on a forum meant to discuss firearms, not higher education.

Maybe this will give you a simple breakdown of why both sides are stupid in this debate, but that doing something was better than the alternative:

Democrats: "We need health care reform"
Republicans: "Liberal fascists! Give us a majority and we'll do it better"
Democrats: "Done, you have majority of both houses"

12 years later, health care is irrefutably worse in every respect for every single person in the United States

Democrats: "We need health care reform"
Republicans: "Liberal fascists! Americans are tired of partisan politics!"
Democrats: "OK, let's compromise"
Republicans: "OK, get rid of half your ideas"
Democrats: "Done"
Republicans: "Too liberal, get rid of half your ideas"
Democrats: "Done"
Republicans: "Too liberal, get rid of half your ideas"
Democrats: "Done"
Republicans: "Too liberal, get rid of half your ideas"
Democrats: "Done"
Republicans: "Too liberal, get rid of half your ideas"
Democrats: "Done. Time to end debate"
Republicans: "Too liberal, we need more debate, we will filibuster to prevent you from voting"
Democrats: "OK, we'll vote--sorry guys, debate is ended. It's time to vote on the bill"
Republicans: "Too liberal, we vote no"
Democrats: "OK, it passed anyway--sorry guys."

One month later

Republicans: "Wait--wait, OK, we have less of a minority now so we can filibuster forever."
Democrats: "Sorry, the bill already passed, we need it to pass the House now"
Republicans: "But we have enough to filibuster"
Democrats: "Sorry, the bill already passed, we need it to pass the House now"
Republicans: "Liberal fascists! You haven't listened to our ideas! You've shut us out of this whole process!"
Democrats: "Sorry, show us your proposal"
Republicans: "Smaller government"
Democrats: "That's not very specific"
Republicans: "OK, here's our detailed proposal--It's our common-sense ideas we spent 12 years not enacting"
Democrats: "OK, we'll add a bunch more of your ideas"
Republicans: "Liberal fascists! You included all these back-room deals"
Democrats: "OK, we'll get rid of the back-room deals"
Republicans: "Liberal fascists! You're using obscure procedural tricks to eliminate the back-room deals!"
Democrats: "No, we're using reconciliation, which both parties have used dozens of times for much larger bills"
Republicans: "Liberal fascists! You're pressuring Congressmen to vote for your bill! Scandal!"
Democrats: "It's called 'whipping', it's been done since 1789"
Republicans: "Liberal fascists! Can't you see the American people don't want this?"
Democrats: "This bill is mildly unpopular (40-50%), doing nothing (your proposal) is extraordinarily unpopular (4-6%)"
Republicans: "We need to start over! We need to start over!"
Democrats: "We should really consider voting--"
Republicans: "Liberal fascists! Start over! Clean slate! Common-sense! America!"

 

[jeremy]

WTH?!

What are you attempting to accomplish Perm?!

 

[Expat]

I've never seen such a massive inability to use simple logic on one thread. I guess that's what I get for posting on a forum meant to discuss firearms, not higher education.

I would certainly like to thank you for making the attempt. That someone as brilliant as you, deigned to grace us with your presence has been absolutely thrilling. As you point out, we are simply a bunch of gun toting bumpkins not given to discussions at the level which you are obviously accustomed.

 

[stmoore]

Maybe to add logic and critical thought? Mental exercise - seriously. Even if you do not agree, it's some good stuff. I've not seen anyone take him up on a mental joust yet - have you?

WTH?!

What are you attempting to accomplish Perm?!

 

[Perm]

I would certainly like to thank you for making the attempt. That someone as brilliant as you, deigned to grace us with your presence has been absolutely thrilling. As you point out, we are simply a bunch of gun toting bumpkins not given to discussions at the level which you are obviously accustomed.

Well I am a tad elitist... it's difficult for me to come back from witty rebuttals such as "ARE YOU KING OBAMA!!!"



I'm a gun-toting bumpkin too... I grew up in nowhere Indiana. I've just read a book in between times I wasn't shooting things. I recommend it.

 

[stmoore]

The funny thing, he is "bumpkin." I told him to quit messing with all those books.

I would certainly like to thank you for making the attempt. That someone as brilliant as you, deigned to grace us with your presence has been absolutely thrilling. As you point out, we are simply a bunch of gun toting bumpkins not given to discussions at the level which you are obviously accustomed.

 

[BloodEclipse]

Maybe this will give you a simple breakdown of why both sides are stupid in this debate, but that doing something was better than the alternative:

I strongly disagree that doing this "something" was better than doing nothing.
This "something" will help bankrupt America.

 

[Joe Williams]

I would certainly like to thank you for making the attempt. That someone as brilliant as you, deigned to grace us with your presence has been absolutely thrilling. As you point out, we are simply a bunch of gun toting bumpkins not given to discussions at the level which you are obviously accustomed.

Ya gotta remember, this is the same guy who's "logic" in another thread caused him to inform us that poor people don't need guns, because they are poor and have nothing worth stealing

 

[Perm]

I strongly disagree that doing this "something" was better than doing nothing.
This "something" will help bankrupt America.

The math is fuzzy on the final cost. We're being led to believe that there will be massive cost savings, but no one can predict that. The truth is probably closer to breaking even.. but at the very least insurance companies can't deny pre-existing coverage, etc. Basic reforms that any common person can appreciate, unless I'm the only person in this forum that isn't independently wealthy.

If we want to halt the deficit, I submit we tone down the defense budget a tad.

Providing healthcare to everyone for free would be a tiny fraction of our defense expenditure.

 

[Perm]

Ya gotta remember, this is the same guy who's "logic" in another thread caused him to inform us that poor people don't need guns, because they are poor and have nothing worth stealing

This is why you should read a book. My "logic" induced the idea that perhaps there are more important security needs for this hypothetical person. Seriously, just go read a few passages about critical thinking. It will actually really help.

 

[jeremy]

Maybe to add logic and critical thought? Mental exercise - seriously. Even if you do not agree, it's some good stuff. I've not seen anyone take him up on a mental joust yet - have you?

Have not really felt the need to join in a competition of wits yet with Perm. Thing again, is that because I feel that he is bring logical thoughts to the page, or because I find them to full of drama...

 

[hornadylnl]

The math is fuzzy on the final cost. We're being led to believe that there will be massive cost savings, but no one can predict that. The truth is probably closer to breaking even.. but at the very least insurance companies can't deny pre-existing coverage, etc. Basic reforms that any common person can appreciate, unless I'm the only person in this forum that isn't independently wealthy.

If we want to halt the deficit, I submit we tone down the defense budget a tad.

Providing healthcare to everyone for free would be a tiny fraction of our defense expenditure.

You're forgetting that little part about enslaving the producing class to provide for the recipient class. If you are going to sit here and tell me that I should submit to the force of the gun and give my money to a welfare queen to buy her healthcare, you sir are a threat to my liberty and a proponent of slavery. If a person has a right to healthcare, where is the right of the person paying for it to keep what he earns?

 

[printcraft]

Seriously!

VRWC: Calling in window rock strikes on 30-story buildings! | RedState

VRWC: Calling in window rock strikes on 30-story buildings!

The Seattle Times (bolding mine):
Protesters have been demonstrating at Driehaus’ Ohio home, said Tim Mulvey, a spokesman for the anti-abortion Democrat who joined Stupak in voting for the health bill. A rock was thrown through the window of Driehaus’ Cincinnati office Sunday, and a death threat was phoned in to his Washington office a day later, Mulvey said.

Instapundit:
Justin Binik-Thomas emails from Cincinnati that Rep. Driehaus’ office “is on the 30th floor of a skyscraper downtown.”
Seriously. It is:

The only way you’re going to get a rock up that high is via Federal Express. On the other hand, maybe they’re worried about their profits taking a, ahem, header from this health care monstrosity. Everybody else is, after all.

 

[stmoore]

Well, we all see things from a different perspective I guess. I think his posts have a lot less drama (approaching zero) than some of the other "let's fight" posts I've seen.

Have not really felt the need to join in a competition of wits yet with Perm. Thing again, is that because I feel that he is bring logical thoughts to the page, or because I find them to full of drama...

 

[Joe Williams]

This is why you should read a book. My "logic" induced the idea that perhaps there are more important security needs for this hypothetical person. Seriously, just go read a few passages about critical thinking. It will actually really help.

LOL thanks for the advice. It means SOOOO much from you, because, as I'm certain you can tell, I find you so credible, such a valuable source of information.

You make a good Soviet mouthpiece... but you've yet to express a thought that was actually your own. Even your disdain for the poor, your willingness to see them die, isn't your own thought.

This isn't logic. It's just parroting,and it makes you boring. When you learn to think, let me know.

 

[Perm]

Have not really felt the need to join in a competition of wits with Perm, yet. Then again, is that because I feel that his ideas are too logical to debate, or because I find them too full of drama...

Fixed.