Daylight Saving Time

[churchmouse]

 

[Ingomike]

Glad you found us again. How was hibernation? I'm all excited to change my clocks as I'm confident you are as well. LOL

 

[chipbennett]

Actually I agree, for Gods sake, who the heck wants to "fiddle" with all their clocks twice a year?

That is not the question, the question is in the spring and early fall do you want sunset about 6PM or after 7PM?

I think the vote on the real question is much different than a simple question of is changing clocks twice a year a PIA.

I think the unexpected to me when I started posting in this thread is just how dang much a bunch of you hate changing clocks. My perception is it runs 80%-20% PIA changing clocks vs. actual complaints about the time. UNREAL...

Those 10PM sunsets in June and July, along with those 8AM sunrises in March and October, sure are awesome.

But, your argument is specious. At the time that DST is applied, the standard-time sunset is already approximately 7PM. DST shifts sunset to approximately 8PM.

https://www.gaisma.com/en/location/indianapolis-indiana.html

 

[chipbennett]

I'm not saying we do it for power savings.

The other links are just fear mongering,

All the items listed would seem to me to consistent with increased activity due to daylight at that time providing opportunity to engage in productive pursuits. If that daylight were all 5AM there would definitely be less activity in that hour of daylight.

Actually, that makes my point, the people use that hour in the evening to be more productive by clearly doing more than they would at 5AM...

Please cite evidence that "people... [are] more productive" based on amount of sunlight at a given time.

In counter-response, I would say that people who are more productive at 5AM are more productive at 5AM regardless of sunrise time, and that people who are more productive at 6PM are more productive at 6PM regardless of sunset time. There is almost nothing that the vast majority of society does today that requires sunlight to be (more) productive.

 

[Ingomike]

Please cite evidence that "people... [are] more productive" based on amount of sunlight at a given time.

In counter-response, I would say that people who are more productive at 5AM are more productive at 5AM regardless of sunrise time, and that people who are more productive at 6PM are more productive at 6PM regardless of sunset time. There is almost nothing that the vast majority of society does today that requires sunlight to be (more) productive.

Why does even common sense have to have a link? We all can see for ourselves what time our society is really based on. While this group is broad based I believe we actually have a greater number of early risers represented here than in life overall.

When it is dark out folks just do not do as much as if it is lighter. That is just a fact of life. For years retailers have told me that their sales increase in the late part of the day after DST, real estate agents say evening showings on their homes for sale increases, folks are just more energetic if there is light later.

As for a comparison of productivity between 5AM and 6PM, it is not even possible for the public at large to be as productive in an overall sense. No business is open at that time to interact with to speak of. No banking, retail, most of the things that make a family run are just not there. No matter the daylight situation at 5AM, most folks are going to use that time to do a short list of things, some will sleep, get up and ready for work or school, commute to work, quite time before the day, and the like. See the theme? A few will use that 5AM time to exercise etc. I rarely commute at that time but when I do, no matter the light, few others are out moving yet. As a society we are not that active at 5AM.

Now on the flip side put that hour of daylight at 7PM and look at all the folks out recreating, running household errands, or meeting with friends. I you are a landscaper for instance, your clients would look at you like a crazy man if you suggested you would build a patio at 5AM. In fact it would be against noise ordinances, that typically run 8AM-8PM, but you can use that DST daylight to work at 7PM.

Just the limitations of options at 5AM make it a less productive for society overall time than 7PM when there is so many more things that can be done.

Definition: recreation is productive use of time to me...

 

[mike45]

Best argument for central time I have ever heard. Great job Ingomike.Keep up the fight.

 

[churchmouse]

Why does even common sense have to have a link? We all can see for ourselves what time our society is really based on. While this group is broad based I believe we actually have a greater number of early risers represented here than in life overall.

When it is dark out folks just do not do as much as if it is lighter. That is just a fact of life. For years retailers have told me that their sales increase in the late part of the day after DST, real estate agents say evening showings on their homes for sale increases, folks are just more energetic if there is light later.

As for a comparison of productivity between 5AM and 6PM, it is not even possible for the public at large to be as productive in an overall sense. No business is open at that time to interact with to speak of. No banking, retail, most of the things that make a family run are just not there. No matter the daylight situation at 5AM, most folks are going to use that time to do a short list of things, some will sleep, get up and ready for work or school, commute to work, quite time before the day, and the like. See the theme? A few will use that 5AM time to exercise etc. I rarely commute at that time but when I do, no matter the light, few others are out moving yet. As a society we are not that active at 5AM.

Now on the flip side put that hour of daylight at 7PM and look at all the folks out recreating, running household errands, or meeting with friends. I you are a landscaper for instance, your clients would look at you like a crazy man if you suggested you would build a patio at 5AM. In fact it would be against noise ordinances, that typically run 8AM-8PM, but you can use that DST daylight to work at 7PM.

Just the limitations of options at 5AM make it a less productive for society overall time than 7PM when there is so many more things that can be done.

Definition: recreation is productive use of time to me...

Pretty much shuts down the naysayers in my book. I just can not wrap my head around why this is even a thing. Seriously.

 

[GLOCKMAN23C]

I seriously dislike, hate would be a better adjective, the time shift twice a year. I do enjoy having more daylight in the evening, I am all for moving clocks forward one hour and leaving them there. The time shift really messes with my internal clock.

 

[Dead Duck]

OK.
Which is the real time? Now or this coming change?

 

[Ingomike]

Best argument for central time I have ever heard. Great job Ingomike.Keep up the fight.

You really got that from my post, a post promoting the benefits of daylight later in the day vs. in the early morning? That is actually a double down proposal. Central time would make all sunsets an hour earlier than they are now and DST would make them a total of 2 hours earlier than eastern without DST. Take September 20th, eastern DST sunset is about 7:45, eastern standard time and central DST would be 6:45, while central standard time the sunset would be 5:45. Just who benefits from sunset then?

On or around September 20 I will finish work and have time to get things done at home.

Indiana has found that being on the same time as New York business and financial markets make sense.

 

[GLOCKMAN23C]

OK.
Which is the real time? Now or this coming change?

Right now we are on EST.

 

[Dead Duck]

Right now we are on EST.

And after the change, we will still be on EST. But what was the original time for Indiana before we started with the time change.
If I wanted to not adjust my clocks, which DST hour change should I leave it on?

 

[Ingomike]

I seriously dislike, hate would be a better adjective, the time shift twice a year. I do enjoy having more daylight in the evening, I am all for moving clocks forward one hour and leaving them there. The time shift really messes with my internal clock.

I get it, the adjustment is no fun for many of us. If we did not go back an hour in the fall the daylight, what little there is of it, would not be in the most usable part of the day for most families. The sunset would be an hour later, great, but sunrise would be ridiculously late in the morning, possibly at 9:30ish...

Do both changes bother you? I only notice the spring forward change personally...

 

[GLOCKMAN23C]

And after the change, we will still be on EST. But what was the original time for Indiana before we started with the time change.
If I wanted to not adjust my clocks, which DST hour change should I leave it on?

We go to EDT on the change. Right now is the original Indiana time.

 

[GLOCKMAN23C]

I get it, the adjustment is no fun for many of us. If we did not go back an hour in the fall the daylight, what little there is of it, would not be in the most usable part of the day for most families. The sunset would be an hour later, great, but sunrise would be ridiculously late in the morning, possibly at 9:30ish...

Do both changes bother you? I only notice the spring forward change personally...

Both bother me, but springing forward is by far much worse.

 

[Ingomike]

I bet some of you here really hate having a whole extra day sandwiched in between February and March if you get fired up over an hour... LOL

 

[femurphy77]

 

[jamil]

Please cite evidence that "people... [are] more productive" based on amount of sunlight at a given time.

In counter-response, I would say that people who are more productive at 5AM are more productive at 5AM regardless of sunrise time, and that people who are more productive at 6PM are more productive at 6PM regardless of sunset time. There is almost nothing that the vast majority of society does today that requires sunlight to be (more) productive.

I was curious so I just googled it. There are studies that suggest workers are more productive when exposed to natural light. However, that doesn’t suggest that DST makes people more productive. Some people claim that DST makes it worse. Decreases productivity, increases depression and anxiety, etcetera. And that seems more tied to changing the clock than being exposed to more sunlight. So then I googled that. One study did not find a difference in worker productivity after switching to DST, although they did find a 23% reduction in tardiness.

So it seems to me that sunlight can improve productivity, given the study, but apparently DST doesn’t tend to affect that much. Possibly because shifting the waking hours earlier doesn’t really add sunlight to one’s workday. And that’s my experience too. In the winter part of my workday is in the dark. DST or not only shifts which end of my workday is in the dark. In the summer it doesn’t matter. Sun is already up when I start, and is still up when I get home.

The study that talked about natural light seemed to be more about how to design the most productive workspaces. They’re saying that you want to design them to bring in as much natural light as possible.

 

[jamil]

I bet some of you here really hate having a whole extra day sandwiched in between February and March if you get fired up over an hour... LOL

I really don’t like having to shift my day. I do prefer to have my day such that I have more time with the sun after I get off work. So I’d be happy to readjust our timezone and stop moving the clocks.

 

[corngrower]

Any shift in time is absurd period. Pick a time zone stick to it and let us all ljve as we wish. People are welcome to have summer and winter hours at their place of business. But screwing up kids sleep schedule is grounds for any possible torture imaginable in my book.
When you have 3-4 young kids who don't understand why they feel like crap and why they now have to get up in the dark and go to bed with the sun up. Not to mention that fireworks are hosed for us who have youg kids because now they are at almost 10 pm at night. **** off on your time changes.