Coronovirus IV

[nonobaddog]

Here's the think, asymptomatic, pre-symptomatic, and not infected are all three very different things, yet appear identical. Obviously, anyone who is infected poses some degree of risk of transmitting the virus.

The question is: does that risk rise (and does the mitigation provided by mask-wearing commensurately rise) to the level of compelling non-infected people to wear masks?

I think that this question is answered very differently by people who (wrongly) believe that achieving a risk level of zero is possible, much less, desirable. For those who understand that almost no risk can ever be mitigated away completely, and therefore some level of residual risk must be deemed to be acceptable, the decision to wear a mask is more nuanced.

Nice tap dancing.

All it says is that you apparently are in the "masks are bad" camp.

I am in the "it's up to you" camp. I am not trying to convince anybody else how they should behave.

 

[Phase2]

So, in other words: what you have is nothing more than pure speculation? Noted.

Kudos, at least, for not referencing the speculation that Remdesivir (an IV course, not an OSD) would cost "$1,000 per pill".

Actually, an organization devoted to understanding drug pricing has analyzed the situation and came up with those numbers. And the quoted prices are for a course of treatment, not a single treatment.

 

[Route 45]

Right? Only so many ways you can say, "Masks are good." "Masks are bad."

 

[foszoe]

I kept clicking where the arrow was pointing and nothing happened!

 

[HoughMade]

...I am in the "it's up to you" camp. I am not trying to convince anybody else how they should behave.

You and me both. I'm also in the: "there's no good reason to ridicule or name-call anyone who makes either decision" camp.

 

[JettaKnight]

You and me both. I'm also in the: "there's no good reason to ridicule or name-call anyone who makes either decision" camp.

That's exactly what a sheep would say.

 

[ArcadiaGP]

You and me both. I'm also in the: "there's no good reason to ridicule or name-call anyone who makes either decision" camp.

That's exactly what a sheep would say.

spoken like a couple of mask cultists

is that the term

did i get it right

 

[Ingomike]

You and me both. I'm also in the: "there's no good reason to ridicule or name-call anyone who makes either decision" camp.

This was never about the "choice" to wear a mask, but the social media fueled campaign to force mask wear by fear, then guilt, then by mandates, both by businesses and government. Those are the sheeple.

I would not criticize any one that chooses to wear a mask, particularly those at risk, or care providers, but a lot gets lost in a long thread...

 

[chipbennett]

Nice tap dancing.

All it says is that you apparently are in the "masks are bad" camp.

I am in the "it's up to you" camp. I am not trying to convince anybody else how they should behave.

What "tap dancing"? Either you believe that risk can be mitigated away entirely, or you believe that it cannot, and therefore some level of residual risk must be deemed acceptable. One's belief regarding risk mitigation will then influence one's opinion on mask-wearing.

My curiosity and personal speculation regarding the underlying science doesn't change my stance, nor does it imply that I am in any particular camp. Your assumption is specious. I apply my general, "live and let live" philosophy: if you want to wear a mask, wear one; if you don't want to wear a mask, don't. For me, personally, I wear a mask where asked to do so (such as at my current client site, at the grocery store, etc.), but do not believe it to be necessary.

 

[chipbennett]

Actually, an organization devoted to understanding drug pricing has analyzed the situation and came up with those numbers. And the quoted prices are for a course of treatment, not a single treatment.

That doesn't change the fact that it is pure speculation. They are not Remdesivir, and Remdesivir has not given any indication on their intended pricing model.

 

[nonobaddog]

More opinions

Surgical masks have been an effective way to reduce the spread of pathogens for quite a while.
Respirator masks have been an effective way of protecting the wearer from inhaling pathogens for quite a while.
Rags over a face have been an effective way of concealing one's identity while robbing stagecoaches and banks for quite a while.

None of the effectiveness of these masks has changed recently just because of politics. The politics of control is the main difference recently. The masks are no more good or bad than they always have been but the arguments have moved to attacking the qualities of the various masks which seems off base to me. It is the politics that is the issue.

People should not be told to wear or not wear a mask. They should do it if they want to use the properties the mask has for reducing pathogen flow.

 

[KellyinAvon]

Last Saturday on a Friday! Back to M-F next week, HOPEFULLY back to the regular job week after next.

This week's highlight: hairy shirtless guy with EKG adhesive electrodes still attached comes out of the ER. Not one, all of them. I got out of his way as he headed for the exit, because he was a hairy shirtless guy with EKG adhesive electrodes still attached.

They also had a guy light up a cigarette in an ER exam room. I asked the Cop who wrote him the citation if the guy had ever heard of Apollo I, or was from Kentucky.

 

[Ingomike]

A prominent Israeli mathematician, analyst and former general claims simple statistical analysis demonstrates that the spread of COVID-19 peaks after about 40 days and declines to almost zero after 70 days — no matter where it strikes, and no matter what measures governments impose to try to thwart it.

Of course those that were part of implementing the shutdown vehemently disagree with him...

https://www.timesofisrael.com/top-i...ts-show-virus-plays-itself-out-after-70-days/

 

[nonobaddog]

Of course those that were part of implementing the shutdown vehemently disagree with him...

https://www.timesofisrael.com/top-i...ts-show-virus-plays-itself-out-after-70-days/

That is pretty interesting but one quote shows he isn't really on top of it.

Asked to explain the phenomenon, Ben-Israel, who also heads Israel’s Space Agency, later said: “I have no explanation. There are all kinds of speculations. Maybe it’s related to climate, or the virus has a life-span of its own.”

He doesn't even think of human behavior as a factor - let alone the most important factor.

 

[HoughMade]

What he has observed, he reports. He is not speculating as to why it peaks at 40 days or drops to almost nothing at 70. An academic who knows the limitations of the data and his own expertise.. That's actually refreshing.

 

[Ingomike]

That is pretty interesting but one quote shows he isn't really on top of it.



He doesn't even think of human behavior as a factor - let alone the most important factor.

Did you read the quote? He said no matter what humans do it has that timing...

 

[ditcherman]

If I had time to dig into it, I would be looking into research regarding the viral load of the exhalation of an asymptomatic person vs the viral load of the exhalation of a symptomatic person. I suspect that the latter is considerably more than the former, because it is the symptoms themselves - such as coughing/sneezing in particular, but possibly others such as fever - that increase the viral load of one's exhalation.

In other words: I suspect that an asymptomatic person wearing or not wearing a mask very well may make next to no difference in contribution to ambient viral load, because the asymptomatic person is not appreciably contributing to ambient viral load through exhalation to begin with.

If that's true, then the mask-wearing by asymptomatic persons truly is nothing more than virtue signaling.

My nurse sister in law explained it very well to us a few weeks ago, IMO.
She said if you’re breathing, you’re not expelling the virus, coughing and sneezing, then definitely yes (assuming your a carrier asymptomatic).
So just breathing does nothing to spread. We only need the masks if we’re going to sneeze, or walk down a grocery aisle when someone sneezed or coughed.
Im sure that’s oversimplified but it’s better than nothing, and better than inciting the mass panic that has ensued from people worrying about the unknown.

 

[nonobaddog]

What he has observed, he reports. He is not speculating as to why it peaks at 40 days or drops to almost nothing at 70. An academic who knows the limitations of the data and his own expertise.. That's actually refreshing.

It looks like he is speculating -

"Maybe it’s related to climate, or the virus has a life-span of its own."

 

[foszoe]

Trump expressed disagreement?

Of course those that were part of implementing the shutdown vehemently disagree with him...

https://www.timesofisrael.com/top-i...ts-show-virus-plays-itself-out-after-70-days/

 

[ditcherman]

Of course those that were part of implementing the shutdown vehemently disagree with him...

https://www.timesofisrael.com/top-i...ts-show-virus-plays-itself-out-after-70-days/

This was covered in these threads earlier a little bit, but ignored, and that’s a shame because, while I have always thought the virus a potential threat, that threat started waning at about 40 days, but we were already on this terrible trajectory of shutdown that was hard to reverse.