Coronovirus IV

[Alpo]

And those pushing mask wear are taking medical advice from left-wing politicians who want ever more fiat power...

Looks like the Big Bad Orange Man is issuing an EO today on his tweets being held up to scrutiny for truthfulness.

So, before you go all Orwellian, heal thyself, amigo.

 

[nonobaddog]

Or is this one of those things that whatever happens, it will support the conspiracy theory.

This nails it! It is an art form these days to come up with conspiracies that are flexible and can be supported by twisty logic.

 

[bobzilla]

OK, so now you're taking your medical advice from a lawyer writing an opinion piece on a right-wing outlet?

If I was Leadeye: Always follow the money.

She makes money by writing opinions that are widely accepted by conservatives. If she wants to keep making money doing that, then she better write about how masks are dumb, and a government plot to steal underwear for profit.

I do not see anything in the quote or his statement discussing medical advice. I do see a discussion on political abuse and conditioning if the people. If you want to bury your head in the sand and ignore it than good for you. The rest of us haven’t. Creating straw men to knock down and changing the subject is not a good way to actually exchange bought a and ideas. It is a good wat to point fingers and tell people how much betterer you are than them

 

[chipbennett]

I comparing the two in the same situation, over the same period of time.


This 60K-80K that's touted as "fairly normal" for a "season" seems apples to oranges.


The 6,000 flu deaths aren't for a "season" it's for this specific time frame 2020-02-01 to 2020-05-19; a time frame when drastic measures were being taken to limit the spread of germs, so if that number is low, then that's the obvious, simple reason, not a conspiratorial attribution to COVID-19 because liberals hate America. (Not that you're saying that, Chip, but others here are.)

But the problem remains: 6,000 deaths are not a normal flu season, so it is not an appropriate number to use to compare COVID-19 to a normal flu season.

As for hygiene and social distancing practices contributing to lower flu deaths this season: we don't know and we may never know (though I certainly applaud the emphasis on basic hygiene practices when dealing with infectious disease). Given the numbers, it seems that the most highly correlated practice is cramming (or not cramming) the most-at-risk people together in nursing homes, thereby facilitating the spread (and mortality) of the virus.

Honestly, given the disparity in COVID infection/hospitalization/mortality rates from the few, extremely-high impacted areas (NYC metro, etc.) and the vast majority of the rest of the country, I don't know if there will be any statistically significant variation in the vast majority of the rest of the country to know if different social distancing policies had any impact whatsoever. We'll see.

 

[chipbennett]

This is not a normal flu year. In a normal flu year the number of deaths is an estimate. The number of flu deaths will be lower this year.
The reasons are many and obvious...

Not shaking hands
Not hugging or touching (except for biden)
Wearing masks
Frequently washing hands
Physical distancing
Working from home
Restaurants closed or take-out only
Cleaning contact surfaces frequently
No large clustering
Less small clustering
Schools closed
Sporting events canceled
Churches closed
Gyms closed
Bars closed
Not taking airplane trips
Avoiding hotels/motels
Postponing surgeries
Avoiding ER visits and doctor appointments
Avoiding taking cruises
Hoarding toilet paper*
Postponing dentist visits
Beaches closed
Businesses closed
Contactless grocery shopping (pickup or delivery)
Plexiglas shields at checkouts
Limiting customers in open stores

So OF COURSE flu deaths are lower. These same reasons are reducing the chinese virus deaths. Without all these reasons I think it is obvious that the flu deaths would be higher this year and also the chinese virus deaths would be higher.

The fact that these deaths are lower is a good thing when taken in isolation but some of the measures used to achieve these lower deaths are doing tremendous damage to the economy of the country, the economy of too many businesses and the economy of too many individuals.

Of that list, I suspect that, for flu deaths, the only one that really made much of a difference was schools (including preschool and daycare) closing. Flu deaths predominantly occur among the extremely young and the extremely old (not counting the immunocompromized, whom I assume generally already adhere to better hygiene practices during flu season).

Now, if incidence of flu overall was lower, then lots of those things likely played a part. But since those are activities undertaken by generally not-at-risk-of-death-by-flu people, I have doubt regarding their influence on overall flu deaths this season.

 

[jamil]

We can certainly get into some pedantic crap on INGO (who, me?!?), but c'mon now: is this really what we're going to quibble about? Having a fever vs running a fever vs running a temperature vs running a high temperature?

Does anyone not understand what is meant by any of those phrases? We are delving into distinction without a difference territory.

That’s what I’m saying. Doesn’t make a difference.

 

[hoosierdoc]

Looks like the Big Bad Orange Man is issuing an EO today on his tweets being held up to scrutiny for truthfulness.

So, before you go all Orwellian, heal thyself, amigo.

it makes sense though. Twitter and FB claim they're not publishers, they just let people post their thoughts.

but when they want to comment on the post and "fact check" it they become publishers who are managing content. if you do that, you're liable for damages for things posted on your platform

you're either in charge of content or you're not

 

[nonobaddog]

Of that list, I suspect that, for flu deaths, the only one that really made much of a difference was schools (including preschool and daycare) closing. Flu deaths predominantly occur among the extremely young and the extremely old (not counting the immunocompromized, whom I assume generally already adhere to better hygiene practices during flu season).

Now, if incidence of flu overall was lower, then lots of those things likely played a part. But since those are activities undertaken by generally not-at-risk-of-death-by-flu people, I have doubt regarding their influence on overall flu deaths this season.

Are you kidding?
Do you know how the flu is spread? You can't die from the flu if the virus doesn't spread. It is spread by the whole population and people of all age groups get the flu and then those most susceptible to flu death are the ones that die. Every one of those things reduce the spread of the flu virus.

https://www.cdc.gov/flu/about/disease/spread.htm

[h=1]How Flu Spreads[/h]
[h=3]Person to Person[/h] People with flu can spread it to others up to about 6 feet away. Most experts think that flu viruses spread mainly by droplets made when people with flu cough, sneeze or talk. These droplets can land in the mouths or noses of people who are nearby or possibly be inhaled into the lungs. Less often, a person might get flu by touching a surface or object that has flu virus on it and then touching their own mouth, nose, or possibly their eyes.

 

[T.Lex]

it makes sense though. Twitter and FB claim they're not publishers, they just let people post their thoughts.

but when they want to comment on the post and "fact check" it they become publishers who are managing content. if you do that, you're liable for damages for things posted on your platform

you're either in charge of content or you're not

So when INGO moderators comment in threads, does INGO become a publisher?

 

[Alpo]

it makes sense though. Twitter and FB claim they're not publishers, they just let people post their thoughts.

but when they want to comment on the post and "fact check" it they become publishers who are managing content. if you do that, you're liable for damages for things posted on your platform

you're either in charge of content or you're not

Well, I'm not Dorsey, but I'd ban Trump. Dorsey would never do it....too much money rolling in from Trump tweets.

 

[IndyBeerman]

Yes, I find it very strange that there isn't more noise about using plasma from survivors. I'll see if there is anything going on along that line around here tomorrow. It would be like a mini-transfusion so it might be too involved to be considered as an answer for the masses.

I still might ask around and see if I can identify somebody I know that has had it and has my blood type.

My best friend who is in a rehab unit recovering from a 63 day stay in the hospital from COV-19 and suffering a mild stroke while sedated on a vent had a 2 unit transfusion of plasma from California.
He was released two weeks after having been given the plasma.

 

[jamil]

I comparing the two in the same situation, over the same period of time.


This 60K-80K that's touted as "fairly normal" for a "season" seems apples to oranges.


The 6,000 flu deaths aren't for a "season" it's for this specific time frame 2020-02-01 to 2020-05-19; a time frame when drastic measures were being taken to limit the spread of germs, so if that number is low, then that's the obvious, simple reason, not a conspiratorial attribution to COVID-19 because liberals hate America. (Not that you're saying that, Chip, but others here are.)

It may also be that the flu numbers are artificially deflated because they’re being tallied as covid deaths because of symptoms and no test results.

 

[actaeon277]

[video=youtube_share;CsDElMCBOyA]https://youtu.be/CsDElMCBOyA[/video]

 

[jamil]

And since only the most naive among us believes that C-19 numbers are not inflated, particularly by adding flu deaths, I consider your post proof of that, not that the C-19 effect is so much worse than the flu effect. Limiting flu deaths to this season is unnecessarily restricting the data.

They’re both inflated and deflated. Some are being over-counted because the CDC guidelines kinda make that tend to happen. Some are undercounted because deaths that happened at home may not be attributed to covid that should have been, especially early on.

So when the dust settles, is it overall more or less? I don’t know if we’ll know for sure because it’s become political. Conservatives seem eager to say meh and progressives seem eager to say OMG!

I don’t think the truth lies squarely on either side.

 

[JettaKnight]

My best friend who is in a rehab unit recovering from a 63 day stay in the hospital from COV-19 and suffering a mild stroke while sedated on a vent had a 2 unit transfusion of plasma from California.
He was released two weeks after having been given the plasma.

****, that sucks.

 

[hoosierdoc]

So when INGO moderators comment in threads, does INGO become a publisher?

i expected this response. Maybe. Sue them and see

 

[hoosierdoc]

Well, I'm not Dorsey, but I'd ban Trump. Dorsey would never do it....too much money rolling in from Trump tweets.

exactly. he's in a tough spot. biting hand that feeds you?

Where's the fact checking on the years of blatant lies by the media over trump collusion?

but may as well use a fact-checker who is unbiased

https://www.businessinsider.com/trump-twitter-employee-bias-yoel-roth-2020-5

 

[T.Lex]

i expected this response. Maybe. Sue them and see

I expected that response, so should I send you an engagement letter?

 

[DoggyDaddy]

I expected that response, so should I send you an engagement letter?

He's already married, but you could try. A letter seems a little impersonal though. Might try a nice dinner, maybe some soft lighting, a good bottle of wine...

 

[foszoe]

Isaac Newton and the Newtonian Physics!

Who said it?