Coronovirus IV

[hoosierdoc]

When people say C-19 is like the flu, this is the type of context they mean that in. Not that it literally is just like the flu...

if you are not in a nursing home then it really is just like the flu. but they don't like to confront that reality

 

[hoosierdoc]

I'm guessing the total risk of death is additive so for someone 35 years old the normal risk would be 0.1% and another 0.1% from getting the chinese virus for a total risk of 0.2% and for someone 85 years old the normal risk would be 10% and another 10% from getting the chinese virus for a total risk of 20%.[

not really. historical mortality includes all diseases that exist. if you wanted to adjust for covid and you're in a 1% risk of death group simply by age... then add your 1% risk of death by covid, but probably a 10% chance you'll catch covid, so we can add 0,0001 to your odds of death and get you to 0.0101 thanks to added risk from covid, or is that 0,011? a 10% chance of catching something that gives you a 1% chance of death

 

[nonobaddog]

not really. historical mortality includes all diseases that exist. if you wanted to adjust for covid and you're in a 1% risk of death group simply by age... then add your 1% risk of death by covid, but probably a 10% chance you'll catch covid, so we can add 0,0001 to your odds of death and get you to 0.0101 thanks to added risk from covid, or is that 0,011? a 10% chance of catching something that gives you a 1% chance of death

So you disagree with the people that say "everybody" will catch it sooner or later? (Personally I would modify "everybody" to mean herd immunity levels or 80% to 90%.)

 

[chipbennett]

So in other words you're saying that nearly 100% of particles will be breathed in? Do you have some studies for that?

I'm sure I could find some studies regarding respirator fit testing, but what is the point? This is basic science of path of least resistance vs tortuous path. Inhaling creates a sufficiently high air flow that near 100% of anything in the air that gets inhaled is going to do so through the open pathway around the mask, rather than through the mask itself. Especially because, for non-mouth-breathers, most of that inhalation comes through the nose.

 

[chipbennett]

Ploy? Is that all you thought about it? You couldn’t imagine that question being anything but a ploy?

He said almost zero. Okay so let’s help your imagination out a bit. A filter should prevent particles from getting through compared to what would have gone through without the filter. That’s the comparison for efficiency, not all the particles there are. So comparing it to an ocean would be kinda silly. Unless of course you took what I said at the most superficial level.

So said another way, if a mask provided nearly zero filtering, you’re also saying that it’s nearly as if you’re not wearing any mask at all. So, with a mask as Chip describes the way I restated the same thing was it’s letting in nearly all of the particles in. Because we’re talking about efficiency, the denominator is not all the particles there are. It’s what it would have been with no mask.

Yes, if you don't wear a mask properly, it is more or less functionally the same as not wearing a mask at all.

The act of inhaling creates a negative local pressure. Air particles fill that vacuum through the path of least resistance. The only way for any filter to work is to ensure that there are no leaks, because a leak will cause the air to bypass the filter entirely.

 

[nonobaddog]

I'm sure I could find some studies regarding respirator fit testing, but what is the point? This is basic science of path of least resistance vs tortuous path. Inhaling creates a sufficiently high air flow that near 100% of anything in the air that gets inhaled is going to do so through the open pathway around the mask, rather than through the mask itself. Especially because, for non-mouth-breathers, most of that inhalation comes through the nose.

It doesn't matter if you inhale through the mouth or nose since both are covered by the mask.

 

[nonobaddog]

Yes, if you don't wear a mask properly, it is more or less functionally the same as not wearing a mask at all.

The act of inhaling creates a negative local pressure. Air particles fill that vacuum through the path of least resistance. The only way for any filter to work is to ensure that there are no leaks, because a leak will cause the air to bypass the filter entirely.

No, it isn't that black and white. If you have ever worn a mask you can feel the resistance when you inhale and the mask gets sucked into your face and makes a better seal.
A small leak is very possible. Bypassing the mask entirely would be almost impossible unless you wear it on your butt..

 

[chipbennett]

No, it isn't that black and white. If you have ever worn a mask you can feel the resistance when you inhale and the mask gets sucked into your face and makes a better seal.
A small leak is very possible. Bypassing the mask entirely would be almost impossible unless you wear it on your butt..

That may be true for an N95 or other respirator. It's really not true for a mere mask. It is certainly not true for a crocheted mask with a filter pouch.

 

[nonobaddog]

That may be true for an N95 or other respirator. It's really not true for a mere mask. It is certainly not true for a crocheted mask with a filter pouch.

Definitely. When I say mask I am referring to a 95% mask or better, such as the 3M 8200 or 8210 which used to be very available and very commonly used for this purpose. Wearing a rag is not a mask, it is just a placebo on someone's face. I will try to put an adjective in front of mask from now on.

 

[foszoe]

If a mask keeps your spit off of me, its effective.

 

[Route 45]

If a mask keeps your spit off of me, its effective.

That's the gigantic, flashing neon point to wearing a mask. It's to prevent spread, given the ability of the virus to infect via asymptomatic people.

My mask protects you. But that's a foreign concept to people who make it all about themselves.

God forbid we ever have a real ****ing plague in this country.

 

[bwframe]

I know this is a silly idea, but if you are worried about other's spit on you...

...then just maybe you should distance yourself from them?

Maybe even consider whether you should be out among "the filthy" in the first place?

 

[wagyu52]

After using N95 masks for work most of my life and being a avid watcher of people and their behaviors in public plus frequenting Illinois where masks are mandatory I’d say an overwhelming majority of the wearers are self contaminating. They fiddle with it constantly, when the mask comes off they are in direct contact with the front and when they are outside, the mask comes off, it goes directly in a pocket or purse.

 

[Tombs]

For those who say they haven't seen the insanity of the mask cult yet:

[video=youtube;F6UHtBpVFqk]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=F6UHtBpVFqk[/video]
Language warning.

 

[Route 45]

After using N95 masks for work most of my life and being a avid watcher of people and their behaviors in public plus frequenting Illinois where masks are mandatory I’d say an overwhelming majority of the wearers are self contaminating. They fiddle with it constantly, when the mask comes off they are in direct contact with the front and when they are outside, the mask comes off, it goes directly in a pocket or purse.

That is their problem. If it was on their face in the store, and worn even halfway correctly, it mitigated the spread of both droplets and aerosol virus particles. Unlike masks worn by medical professionals in direct contact with infected patients, the use of the mask in public gatherings is to limit the spread of the virus for the group.

 

[nonobaddog]

After using N95 masks for work most of my life and being a avid watcher of people and their behaviors in public plus frequenting Illinois where masks are mandatory I’d say an overwhelming majority of the wearers are self contaminating. They fiddle with it constantly, when the mask comes off they are in direct contact with the front and when they are outside, the mask comes off, it goes directly in a pocket or purse.

Darwin approves.

Around here I see many people that know how to use a 95% protective mask and know why they are wearing it in the first place.
(I think I'll start calling them respirators to avoid people thinking of Lone Ranger masks or something equally useless)

 

[Route 45]

For those who say they haven't seen the insanity of the mask cult yet:

Funny how the 99% in that store are the "cult" members.

 

[chipbennett]

If a mask keeps your spit off of me, its effective.

Certainly. But that's not what's in dispute here.

 

[IndyBeerman]

I have to wonder if places like Menards do this after consultation with their lawyers and insurance. Curious about when the tidal wave of covid personal injury lawsuits comes and where it will hit the hardest.

Even though there is no chance in heck that a frivelous bat crazy lawsuit has a chance of ever being awarded to someone claiming they got rona there, there is and will be that crowd and lawyers going the way of "Money for Nothing" approach just like the fools who sued McDonald's because they was stupid enough to put scalding hot cups of coffee between their legs with the lid off.

Now tell me you didn't say "Money for Nothing" in you head without the the music and delivery like Dire Straits.

 

[wagyu52]

That is their problem. If it was on their face in the store, and worn even halfway correctly, it mitigated the spread of both droplets and aerosol virus particles. Unlike masks worn by medical professionals in direct contact with infected patients, the use of the mask in public gatherings is to limit the spread of the virus for the group.

Doesn’t work like that, masks are filters, they don’t stop droplets and aerosol they trap it. When you contaminate yourself it’s with everything you came in contact with while wearing it.