Coronavirus II

[churchmouse]

My northeast side of Indy pharmaceutical testing equipment employer is really letting me down. Non essential people are home. Essential Production workers and maintenance are still plugging away. I haven't seen or heard from my supervisor or manager in two weeks now. Last night our Senior Site Director Skyped us and gave us the same line of bs. We are important, customers depend on us bla bla bla.

Some of my coworkers are choosing to stay home and use sick time or approved paid leave. I'm saving all of my time since I don't have any young kids at home and I don't have regular in person communication with older family members.

I believe they know as soon as one of us tests positive production will stop. They have all but said it. They are just using us as long as they can. They don't care about our family or loved ones.

I won't forget how they've acted during this. I won't be staying at this job much longer. It just isn't worth it to be just a number.

Not saying you are wrong in your feelings but welcome to the new way of doing things. We are all just a number in some fashion.

 

[Ingomike]

It (he) has a name which has been withheld for OPSEC. The details he reports are accurate and substantiated from an experienced medical professional. He is a reliable, trusted source with years of experience and a trusted friend. I have no doubts as to the validity of his claims.

Is this not the type of "on the ground" reporting and intel that we have been looking for?

While I agree that numbers modeling is important, and links to important intelligence provide a broader picture, are we not concerned with verifiable resources on the ground providing real-time information? I can look at numbers all day, and read reports and weblinks from all around the globe, but neither of those do anything to help me know what's going on in my own back yard.

It seems that INGO members are relegated to one camp or the other in regards to COVID-19:

1. The end is near/TEOTWAWKI/Martial Law/Doom and gloom; or

2. "It's just the flu and it's going to ruin the economy.


Are we not allowed to be somewhere in the middle and trying to establish our own judgement based on all intel received? Are we not allowed to be somewhere in the middle? Personally, I see relevant information from all sides.


And for those that know me, they know what I do and know that I don't post that information lightly.

I repeat. We are not looking for unsourced rumors...

I likely talk to more doctors in Indy per week off the record than anyone here not in a hospital. I consistently hear what doc said. I don't post any rumors I hear because they are just rumors. That social media made up image is just garbage and it unnecessarily scares folks.

 

[T.Lex]

Remember that IHME predictive model? It forecast a total (max) of 1,237 total deaths. The INGO official was 1,295. So, even its max is under the real number.

But, today it should catch up. I'm looking at ~1,500 total dead by the end of today and its predicting 1,542 (max of 1,629).

 

[Trigger Time]

I repeat. We are not looking for unsourced rumors...

Well I trust him with my life so what he says holds weight for me.
You look for whatever you want. I've seen some people post opinions and bull **** and fear mongering. I've seen some people post statistics but based on what? Incomplete data?
I'll just decide myself what I want to accept as good Intel or not. You decide what you want to accept for yourself mkay?

 

[Snapdragon]

Well I trust him with my life so what he says holds weight for me.
You look for whatever you want. I've seen some people post opinions and bull **** and fear mongering. I've seen some people post statistics but based on what? Incomplete data?
I'll just decide myself what I want to accept as good Intel or not. You decide what you want to accept for yourself mkay?

Yup.

 

[smokingman]

https://wgntv.com/news/coronavirus/...d-pressure-meds-and-severe-cases-of-covid-19/

Dr Gregory Mishkel is a NorthShore University HealthSystem cardiologist.
“It seems like patients who have heart disease who are on ACE inhibitors seem to do worse,” he said. “And the biological hypothesis is that by blocking the ACE receptor that these drugs do, there is up regulation where virus hooks onto the cells and enters the body more easily.”
Study authors conclude the virus enters the body and worsens, putting patients at greater risk for more severe disease, even death. But Mishkel said heart and blood pressure patients who are not as healthy or well managed on medication are at greater risk from COVID-19.

You can sign up and unlock the study.Sadly you will hear and see many papers,and letters on the topic with differing opinions.
Stop taking ace,keep taking ace,ace will cause higher mortality,ace may help against covid. The author gathering all this information makes the right call I think.
But in short the message is "we do not know what we do not know" which is at least honest.
https://www.medscape.com/viewarticle/927542

So I dug a bit more and found this study. It again is saying we do not know what we do not know. Someone figure this out with clinical data is the conclusion of it.

[FONT=&amp]There is insufficient clinical or scientific evidence to determine how to appropriately manage hypertension in the setting of COVID-19. As such, this provides an opportunity for the research community to better outline the renin-angiotensin system and specifically ACE2 in the pathogenesis of COVID-19 while clinical data are accumulated to determine if there is a link between the use of ACEIs, ARBs, or both and COVID-19 mortality and morbidity. Until more substantial data are available to guide decision-making one way or the other, physicians should be available to listen to patients’ concerns
[/FONT]https://jamanetwork.com/journals/ja...ign=ftm_links&utm_content=tfl&utm_term=032420


Since roughly 74 million Americans take an ace inhibitor I will be following this topic closely and post actual data and science when it becomes available.

 

[Ingomike]

Well I trust him with my life so what he says holds weight for me.
You look for whatever you want. I've seen some people post opinions and bull **** and fear mongering. I've seen some people post statistics but based on what? Incomplete data?
I'll just decide myself what I want to accept as good Intel or not. You decide what you want to accept for yourself mkay?

My comments are mostly directed at BS like this.

This is is an Internet forum and not everyone knows everyone personally to be able to make this judgments as to the veracity of their reports.

 

[Snapdragon]

My comments are mostly directed at BS like this.

Which parts do you think are false? I have seen all of this information corroborated several times, albeit in different regions. Do you think this is not happening, or that it's just not happening in Indy?

 

[JettaKnight]

Well I trust him with my life so what he says holds weight for me.
You look for whatever you want. I've seen some people post opinions and bull **** and fear mongering. I've seen some people post statistics but based on what? Incomplete data?
I'll just decide myself what I want to accept as good Intel or not. You decide what you want to accept for yourself mkay?

There's tons of people I'd trust with my life, that I wouldn't trust as valid sources of certain information.

 

[JettaKnight]

Which parts do you think are false? I have seen all of this information corroborated several times, albeit in different regions. Do you think this is not happening, or that it's just not happening in Indy?

If Facebook et al was available in 1938, the Martian invasion would have been corroborated by multiple sources.

 

[Snapdragon]

But I'm curious as to what makes this information so unbelievable? Just because it was posted on Facebook and some people are Facebook snobs?

 

[nonobaddog]

All hospitals are different, hospital adminstrations are different, hospital bean counters have different levels of sway, ERs are different, ER preparedness is different, stock levels of PPE are different, local levels of COVID-19 are different.

Sometimes ERs are considered very important by hospital administration and sometimes they are considered less so because they can be economically draining because it is more difficult to collect payments from some patients.

You can probably believe any ER story you hear because it will be true somewhere.

 

[Snapdragon]

You can probably believe any ER story you hear because it will be true somewhere.

This

 

[Trigger Time]

There's tons of people I'd trust with my life, that I wouldn't trust as valid sources of certain information.

I guess we have different thresholds then.
I'd be questioning why those people are repeating information that is not reliable and still considered a trusted source?
That's just me.

I guess it just comes down to how well you know someone. I know jsx. He is honorable and trustworthy and if he tells you something you can take it to the bank. He doesn't operate on 3rd hand info either, he is a guy who wants facts from the source. Actionable intelligence. He is also not an alarmist or looking for a conspiracy type guy. So if something concerns him, you may want to pay attention. And he is ****ing smart and has a lot of training in key areas that relate to this emergency.
I understand not everyone knows him, but I do. So I trust his word. That's all I'm saying.

 

[Ingomike]

Which parts do you think are false? I have seen all of this information corroborated several times, albeit in different regions. Do you think this is not happening, or that it's just not happening in Indy?

The latter to a significant degree. Things are trying in hospitals but this social media my brothers hairdressers dog groomer knows a guy in ER that said, needs to stop...

 

[Ingomike]

I guess we have different thresholds then.
I'd be questioning why those people are repeating information that is not reliable and still considered a trusted source?
That's just me.

I guess it just comes down to how well you know someone. I know jsx. He is honorable and trustworthy and if he tells you something you can take it to the bank. He doesn't operate on 3rd hand info either, he is a guy who wants facts from the source. Actionable intelligence. He is also not an alarmist or looking for a conspiracy type guy. So if something concerns him, you may want to pay attention. And he is ****ing smart and has a lot of training in key areas that relate to this emergency.
I understand not everyone knows him, but I do. So I trust his word. That's all I'm saying.

There are folks here I have come to trust their thinking as much as one can from a personally disconnected Internet site and you would be in that group, so I take your recommendation...

 

[nonobaddog]

 

[Snapdragon]

As of midnight, Marion County has nearly half of the cases in the entire state (484/981). I would tend to believe the posts in question.

https://coronavirus.in.gov/2393.htm

 

[T.Lex]

Guys, I think one thing smokingman and I agree on is that there is a disconnect between the numbers and the boots-on-the-ground reality. I'm working on a longer post with support for that, but it is more complicated than you might think.

Basically, though, as someone stated upthread, it is possible for some hospitals/ERs to be near-capacity and overworked, while others are not. It is also true that those medical staff on the ground are more concerned about treating people and their conditions. If a patient presents as pneumonia with kidney failure, they treat that/those. They can intuit that it is COVID-19 without a test. But, for official reporting purposes, if it isn't confirmed, it is "just" pneumonia with kidney failure.

We can sympathize and be alarmed by the medical staff anecdotes without losing sight of the bigger picture, too.

And I know it is an INGO reflex, but can we avoid putting INGOers in "camps"? That just sounds really tribal.

Unless you're in my camp. Then we can do s'mores and singalongs and tell ghost stories and do peach Schnapps shots until one of us passes out.

 

[CampingJosh]

And I know it is an INGO reflex, but can we avoid putting INGOers in "camps"? That just sounds really tribal.

Unless you're in my camp. Then we can do s'mores and singalongs and tell ghost stories and do peach Schnapps shots until one of us passes out.

What's wrong with camp? I like camp.