Coronavirus II

[Trigger Time]

Haven't had time to listen to all of it but I will.
I DO NOT want to take this into forbidden territory, but I think we can have a discussion about "undermine my country".
I say forget the polarization as much as is possible. You say we're all Americans, but then jump right into separation by politics, instead of giving someone the benefit of the doubt that they mean the best for this country, but from a whole different view, immediately dividing and polarizing with no hope of reconciliation.
I guess my question is, what, or who is undermining the country? I think it's the big govt types, the enormous behemoth "we've" created. So is insurrection, as our forefathers possibly expected, warranted and even a good thing?

It's a mindset and they tend to flock to that party. I've tried to verbally attack Democrat leadership instead of labeling all Democrat voters as enemies of America. Because I truly do not believe all of them are bad people and hate this country.
However, what I was saying in what you quoted was that people who just hate others for the simple reason of belonging to another party or voting for a person (trump), and try to prevent free speech and assembly, they are a serious threat to this country.
So yes I do believe we are all Americans but some use their status as Americans to try and undermine the core values America was founded on. We do have enemies from within. I do not assume someone is my friend and ally just because they share the same citizenship.
Reality is we will not all come together for the good of America. Some are so blinded by their hate that they will never work with the other side. And I'll bet you money the higher percentage of those people lie on the left. It's just fact.

 

[d.kaufman]

Interesting if true

https://www.naturalnews.com/2020-04...en-deprivation-not-pneumonia-ventilators.html

 

[Dean C.]

I kind of favor nuking any source of repeat major outbreaks or pandemics from orbit, just to be sure (slightly purplish)

You mean disgusting wet markets where people eat bats like what happened in Wuhan and in Western Africa during the 2012 Ebola outbreak? Maybe we should finally fuel air bomb these disease ridden cesspools?

What is going to happen to a lot of middle and lower middle class people after they have been laid off for a month+ ?? After this is all said and done I am going to go on a limb and say the "cure" is WAY worse than the disease.

The only positive I can see comming out of this in any way is hopefully the US realises we need to really start making generic drugs here as we just cannot rely on other countries for this kind of materials.

My official prediction is the 200k death toll will most likely be correct, but it won't matter because our economy is going to take a **** worse than in 2008.

Even worse prediction, I see the US taking a dramatic shift in how the average citizen views the government. Especially considering a lot of the country is relying on their sweet sweet Trump Bucks to even stay afloat. And by shift I mean definitely more communist type policies going into effect. I really hope I am wrong but I doubt it.

 

[jsharmon7]

Interesting if true

https://www.naturalnews.com/2020-04...en-deprivation-not-pneumonia-ventilators.html

Check out his Twitter. Basically, he (and an increasing number of others) think doctors are treating this incorrectly by assuming it behaves like ARDS. He argues is more akin to altitude-related illnesses. His theory is that high pressure from intubation is causing the lung damage.

 

[MCgrease08]

You mean disgusting wet markets where people eat bats like what happened in Wuhan and in Western Africa during the 2012 Ebola outbreak? Maybe we should finally fuel air bomb these disease ridden cesspools?

No way. These wet markets are just like farmer's markets. At least according to the media that is openly carrying the water for the Chi-com government.

The attraction of wet markets isn’t so different from that of farmers’ markets in Western countries. In contrast to a supermarket model where multiple layers of retailers, wholesalers and logistics companies stand in between the consumer and the grower, wet markets offer a personal and direct connection between shopper, stallholder and farmer.

Consumers know the food is fresh because there’s generally little refrigeration, so everything must be sold on the day. If in doubt, they can ask the stallholder what’s in season and which produce is best at the moment. If they think one market looks unsanitary, they can choose to shop at another….


To the extent that the mix of the raw and the cooked in Asia’s wet markets is a health problem, it can easily be mitigated by better building design (such as separating meat, vegetable and livestock areas and keeping markets fully enclosed), plus the sort of mandated cleaning regulations found in places like Singapore, Hong Kong and South Korea.

I'm sure once they realize they should simply butcher dogs and cats away from the lettuce then things will be totally fine.

Bloomberg Publishes Gushing Article About China’s ‘Wet Markets,’ Compares Appeal To Farmers Markets

 

[ditcherman]

It's a mindset and they tend to flock to that party. I've tried to verbally attack Democrat leadership instead of labeling all Democrat voters as enemies of America. Because I truly do not believe all of them are bad people and hate this country.
However, what I was saying in what you quoted was that people who just hate others for the simple reason of belonging to another party or voting for a person (trump), and try to prevent free speech and assembly, they are a serious threat to this country.
So yes I do believe we are all Americans but some use their status as Americans to try and undermine the core values America was founded on. We do have enemies from within. I do not assume someone is my friend and ally just because they share the same citizenship.
Reality is we will not all come together for the good of America. Some are so blinded by their hate that they will never work with the other side. And I'll bet you money the higher percentage of those people lie on the left. It's just fact.

I agree with most of what you say here in general, probably just looking at it from a different angle. The tolerant left that's not so tolerant and all that for sure.
I will say that I don't assume someone is my friend and ally just because they share the same party.
When we are divided by party lines, or anything else at all, the corrupt people in power that wish ill on us have won. Divide and conquer, it's a game winning strategy, and by using party politics they are dividing the American people. This country is the United States of America, not the government. No matter how bad they want it to be, that is their hopes and dreams, and it is up to us to vote them out no matter what party.
When we are divided in any way, the power hungry win. If we could all step back and take a breath and see that we are all Americans first, that we are being fed from both sides, that would make America great again. We can be divided (just look at INGO) but we should choose the divisions not have them forced on us from those in power.

 

[nonobaddog]

I agree with most of what you say here in general, probably just looking at it from a different angle. The tolerant left that's not so tolerant and all that for sure.
I will say that I don't assume someone is my friend and ally just because they share the same party.
When we are divided by party lines, or anything else at all, the corrupt people in power that wish ill on us have won. Divide and conquer, it's a game winning strategy, and by using party politics they are dividing the American people. This country is the United States of America, not the government. No matter how bad they want it to be, that is their hopes and dreams, and it is up to us to vote them out no matter what party.
When we are divided in any way, the power hungry win. If we could all step back and take a breath and see that we are all Americans first, that we are being fed from both sides, that would make America great again. We can be divided (just look at INGO) but we should choose the divisions not have them forced on us from those in power.

To stop the division you would have to stop the socialist teachings in schools.

 

[Sylvain]

I did the other day when I had go go out yes. First time I had seen so many masks. I've been wearing mine for a while if I'm going inside somewhere. If I'm outside I do not. But I still use other precautions.
I use sanitizer, lysol wipes, gloves pumping gas and I THROW THEM IN THE TRASH BECAUSE I'M NOT A SCUMBAG, spray lysol, spray steramine, bleach solution, constant handwashing.
I also have a decontamination pan I step in with my shoes before coming inside, & I spray down my clothes or immediately put them in the washer. I should start shampooing my hair at minimum but shower after any outside excursions from now on too but I also wear a hat and spray it down. You can never be too safe when you're talking about life or death and passing it to others.
I'm responsible for getting supplies for afew elderly others not in my household. I've volunteered to do this to keep them isolated at home. I have my own risks if I get this but I'm taking every other precaution I can and I'm not making daily trips out in public. It's very limited.

I wear a surgical mask if I get in contact with people.
I have a very limited supply of N95 masks so I have to save those and use the surgical ones instead.

I have seen more people with home made masks since it's almost impossible to buy any sort of masks now.
We are only allowed to go out to buy essential grocery items here, most stores are closed.

 

[Ingomike]

I think part of the problem is inventory tax. If hospitals had warehouses full of inventory in case of emergency, they would be paying for them every year which is why just in time makes financial sense.

What inventory tax? If I recall correctly Daniels tax reform ended that and there never was one at the fed level I know of. YMMV in other states.

 

[Dean C.]

So I was doing some angry googling , just random basic statistics mostly.

The Hubei Providence in which Wuhan is the most populated city in that particular Providence has roughly 58.5 Chi-Coms living in it with the actual city home to over 11 million of said Chi-Coms.

China is reporting that they only had roughly 82,000 cases of COVID-19 with around 3,300 deaths. BUT I have been reading that the communists are reporting more confirmed cases as of today.


Here is the interesting bit IMHO, Italy has a population of roughly 60.5 Million, not really that far off population size compared to the Hubei Providence. BUT Italy is reporting 124,000+ cases with 15,000 dead.

Do the Chinese really believe the world is so stupid that we believe these numbers? They dirty communists literally want the rest of the world to believe somehow they basically got away with barley a scratch while it is ****ing the rest of the world.

And that's just pretending that Covid-19 ONLY stayed in the Hubei Providence and didn't spread to the rest of the 1.368 BILLION other communists.

 

[ditcherman]

To stop the division you would have to stop the socialist teachings in schools.

meh.
Sounds defeatist to me.
Sure, it's a thing, but so is "raise up a child in the way he should go and when he is older he shall not depart from it". It starts with parents, trust me, my wife is a kindergarten teacher, and it needs to start with the parents.
You are always going to have and need those alternative points of view, and some will latch on to them. A thinking person will be forced to choose what they believe is right, and I believe we as a society have become so soft and coasted so long that no one that doesn't want to has to choose the best answer even if it's not the easy answer. Just look at the welfare state we have, people rewarded for making the wrong choice. It's immoral to not support your fellow man in need but it's also immoral to enable continued bad behavior. This relates to the beer bug in that this is a opportunity for those who have not had the pleasure of making hard choices to get some practice.
If this crises can get spun so that people believe that bigger government is not the answer that would be very helpful.

 

[Ingomike]

Haven't had time to listen to all of it but I will.
I DO NOT want to take this into forbidden territory, but I think we can have a discussion about "undermine my country".
I say forget the polarization as much as is possible. You say we're all Americans, but then jump right into separation by politics, instead of giving someone the benefit of the doubt that they mean the best for this country, but from a whole different view, immediately dividing and polarizing with no hope of reconciliation.
I guess my question is, what, or who is undermining the country? I think it's the big govt types, the enormous behemoth "we've" created. So is trying to create a better place, as our forefathers possibly expected, warranted and even a good thing?

Edited to change phraseology from a big scary word even though I was only quoting someone else.

Unfortunately there will likely be the strife internal to our country between those that understand as most of us do and, and are willing to pull up our bootstraps, and those that suck at the tit of the socialism structure that has been created in the last 60 years.

This country has been governed by a twin rail economic system for that time, but only by borrowing massive amounts of money we have ran a dual system, and that is unsustainable for longer term...

 

[ditcherman]

What inventory tax? If I recall correctly Daniels tax reform ended that and there never was one at the fed level I know of. YMMV in other states.

You are correct about Indiana, there are only 7 states that still do.

 

[Rookie]

Like I said in my next post, I could be wrong...

 

[Ingomike]

No way. These wet markets are just like farmer's markets. At least according to the media that is openly carrying the water for the Chi-com government.



I'm sure once they realize they should simply butcher dogs and cats away from the lettuce then things will be totally fine.

Bloomberg Publishes Gushing Article About China’s ‘Wet Markets,’ Compares Appeal To Farmers Markets

These media outlets used to be large American corporations, but no more, they are PR divisions of mega-multi-national conglomerates. They want the enormous Chinese market even more than the US market and are led by people that truly believe their money will insulate them from the heat of the US implosion.

I get a laugh out of posts that imply there could be a WWIII. It has already started, but likely will not involve tanks and bombs, it will be economic. It will involve other countries, but there will a third front, the mega-multi-national conglomerates are like a different type of country.

These mega-multi-national conglomerates, that we have had numerous conversations about corporations not being people, are now engaging in the economic war just like the countries and several have greater GDP than many countries.

 

[BugI02]

How do we decide what is essential?
How do we decide the quantities of essentials that are needed?
Who decides where the essentials are stored?
Who pays for it?
Who decides how they are distributed in times of need?
Are the above questions answered by households, towns, cities, counties, states, the federal government?

IF we make it through the above questions and have all the essentials we need, will we allow a company to serve the needs of other countries by building factories closer to their foreign customers to return value to their shareholders here in the US?

What do we expect of the companies that produced them?
Are they to carry the plants and equipment on their books until the next time they are needed?
Do they deserve compensation for doing so, or will that be the cost of doing business in the US?
If we chose the wrong quantity of essentials, who is responsible, households, towns, cities, counties, states, federal government?

will we lay claim to the output of the company's foreign factories until our needs are met?
What consequences for taking such actions are we willing to accept?

By the time you can know the answers to those questions it will be too late, one way or the other

That's the reason philosophers and historians don't write about wars until they're over and all the answers are in

 

[Alpo]

I do not think anyone would be happy at that point. Sure some might think playing warlord would be fun,right up to the point they realized it meant living in a war state with others constantly.

I do not think anyone wants the USA to end up like a 3rd world country.

The only way I see a true recovery is a return of the US manufacturing base. I have said it for well over 10 years now,you can not base an economy on financial services and restaurants. You have to actually make things.

Yeah. I've said the same thing. An economy based on mowing each other's lawns is doomed.

 

[Ingomike]

meh.
Sounds defeatist to me.
Sure, it's a thing, but so is "raise up a child in the way he should go and when he is older he shall not depart from it". It starts with parents, trust me, my wife is a kindergarten teacher, and it needs to start with the parents.
You are always going to have and need those alternative points of view, and some will latch on to them. A thinking person will be forced to choose what they believe is right, and I believe we as a society have become so soft and coasted so long that no one that doesn't want to has to choose the best answer even if it's not the easy answer. Just look at the welfare state we have, people rewarded for making the wrong choice. It's immoral to not support your fellow man in need but it's also immoral to enable continued bad behavior. This relates to the beer bug in that this is a opportunity for those who have not had the pleasure of making hard choices to get some practice.
If this crises can get spun so that people believe that bigger government is not the answer that would be very helpful.

You are correct that parents are a part of the problem but it actually is a society problem and many parents are not educated enough to raise their kids. The society problem can be laid directly at the feet of the moral relativism taught by the liberal arts generations past and present. That must change, somebody has to teach those whose parents were not taught...

 

[Alpo]

How do we decide what is essential?
How do we decide the quantities of essentials that are needed?
Who decides where the essentials are stored?
Who pays for it?
Who decides how they are distributed in times of need?
Are the above questions answered by households, towns, cities, counties, states, the federal government?

IF we make it through the above questions and have all the essentials we need, will we allow a company to serve the needs of other countries by building factories closer to their foreign customers to return value to their shareholders here in the US?

What do we expect of the companies that produced them?
Are they to carry the plants and equipment on their books until the next time they are needed?
Do they deserve compensation for doing so, or will that be the cost of doing business in the US?
If we chose the wrong quantity of essentials, who is responsible, households, towns, cities, counties, states, federal government?

will we lay claim to the output of the company's foreign factories until our needs are met?
What consequences for taking such actions are we willing to accept?

What is likely to happen?

Remember Richard Reid, the shoe bomber?

Because of this idiot, we now take off our shoes to get through airport security. All of us. For years and years. Probably forever.

One guy....changed the world. Mostly because governments cure problems that no longer exist and are not smart enough to think forward.

The blood rushes to my feet when I think of all the idiotic things we will do in the future because of this virus.

 

[ditcherman]

These media outlets used to be large American corporations, but no more, they are PR divisions of mega-multi-national conglomerates. They want the enormous Chinese market even more than the US market and are led by people that truly believe their money will insulate them from the heat of the US implosion.

I get a laugh out of posts that imply there could be a WWIII. It has already started, but likely will not involve tanks and bombs, it will be economic. It will involve other countries, but there will a third front, the mega-multi-national conglomerates are like a different type of country.

These mega-multi-national conglomerates, that we have had numerous conversations about corporations not being people, are now engaging in the economic war just like the countries and several have greater GDP than many countries.

Same post as before but different guy...
Dad? Is that you?
He was always worried about the amount of foreign debt we had sold, but we've already covered that and it seems like it's not really a worry.
So it might not really be a one world government were heading to, more like a one world conglomerate?