Cop suv's instead of cars?

[IndyDave1776]

A friend will help you move. A real friend will help you move a body.

You're not right, but you are funny!

 

[j706]

I would consider this a very reasonable point. I would further argue (through the lens of a professional driver) that a working vehicle is a work space. It must offer an environment conducive to its user being able to work efficiently. Just like anything else, there is no such thing as a one size fits all solution. I do not feel that the police should be under-equipped in this regard so far as dimensions and performance are concerned. If I were called upon to find a good solution, my answer would be to have three or four different vehicles at a similar price point from which the individual officer could choose based on suitability for specific application and a good, comfortable fit between man/woman and machine. A good fit takes in adequate room for necessary equipment to be placed in a manner conducive to function, adequate fit to the driver (both in terms of not putting a 6 foot plus tall man in a subcompact or a 5 foot or so woman in a vehicle that requires her to put a stack of books on the seat in order to see over the dash), and adequate space for anticipated voluntary or involuntary passengers. As previously addressed, it is also necessary that the vehicle be able to perform adequately and be able to stand up to the abuse of occasional hard use when called upon to do so.

I would like to again reinforce the idea that Frank is absolutely right. Most of us consider it unacceptable that equipment available to law enforcement is unavailable to the rest of us, often in flagrant violation of the Second Amendment. That said, it is a two-way street. I don't accept the argument that the police should be more equal, but at the same time, there is no justification for the notion that they should be less equal. While visiting this general point, I will also point out that being a public servant (as properly defined) is indicative that one is paid to (and expected to) serve the public within the confines of a job description, which does not include functioning as a serf. By extension, while I expect frugal use of resources, that means purchasing equipment which is adequate for the job but not extravagant. It does not mean buying the cheapest thing you can find on four tires (with the consideration a lord would have for a serf). Besides, the machine under consideration is a $20K +/- Tahoe, not a $60K Escalade.

This brings me back to the solution of having each officer able to choose the vehicle that works best from among different choices rather than having that decision made by someone else who doesn't have to live with it.

Want to see extravagant take a look at some fire department vehicles. Suv's with every option including leather and sunroofs. Totaly absurd Imo.

 

[public servant]

Want to see extravagant take a look at some fire department vehicles. Suv's with every option including leather and sunroofs. Totaly absurd Imo.

You can't expect a hoser to leave the comfort of their dayroom and get into a beater.

 

[Trigger Time]

Want to see extravagant take a look at some fire department vehicles. Suv's with every option including leather and sunroofs. Totaly absurd Imo.

And the playboy channel in the firehouse. Big pimpin

 

[IndyDave1776]

And the playboy channel in the firehouse. Big pimpin

Personally I would have kept discussion of use of hoses focused on those attached to the truck.

 

[vitamink]

Knowing nothing about fire fighting i feel that all it involves is putting water on a fire, therefore all they need is a crew cab pickup and a garden hose.

Ambulances just transport folks so really again all you need is a truck with a camper...if you feel like splurging...a dump bed.

 

[vitamink]

I would consider this a very reasonable point. I would further argue (through the lens of a professional driver) that a working vehicle is a work space. It must offer an environment conducive to its user being able to work efficiently. Just like anything else, there is no such thing as a one size fits all solution. I do not feel that the police should be under-equipped in this regard so far as dimensions and performance are concerned. If I were called upon to find a good solution, my answer would be to have three or four different vehicles at a similar price point from which the individual officer could choose based on suitability for specific application and a good, comfortable fit between man/woman and machine. A good fit takes in adequate room for necessary equipment to be placed in a manner conducive to function, adequate fit to the driver (both in terms of not putting a 6 foot plus tall man in a subcompact or a 5 foot or so woman in a vehicle that requires her to put a stack of books on the seat in order to see over the dash), and adequate space for anticipated voluntary or involuntary passengers. As previously addressed, it is also necessary that the vehicle be able to perform adequately and be able to stand up to the abuse of occasional hard use when called upon to do so.

I would like to again reinforce the idea that Frank is absolutely right. Most of us consider it unacceptable that equipment available to law enforcement is unavailable to the rest of us, often in flagrant violation of the Second Amendment. That said, it is a two-way street. I don't accept the argument that the police should be more equal, but at the same time, there is no justification for the notion that they should be less equal. While visiting this general point, I will also point out that being a public servant (as properly defined) is indicative that one is paid to (and expected to) serve the public within the confines of a job description, which does not include functioning as a serf. By extension, while I expect frugal use of resources, that means purchasing equipment which is adequate for the job but not extravagant. It does not mean buying the cheapest thing you can find on four tires (with the consideration a lord would have for a serf). Besides, the machine under consideration is a $20K +/- Tahoe, not a $60K Escalade.

This brings me back to the solution of having each officer able to choose the vehicle that works best from among different choices rather than having that decision made by someone else who doesn't have to live with it.

Most large departments are really good in this regard. Many only give their performance cars to the beat officers and buy hybrids or non police package cars for district detectives, admin, and the lot. These people tend to not need to get anywhere with any haste or stop quickly. If you do see a detective rolling a crown vic they are generally part of a special team (SWAT, EOD, negotiators, ERG, etc etc) and need a vehicle that can handle sustained speeds.

A crown vic is by no way the fastest car on the planet, most decent civilian cars are faster. Hell, the toyota camry hybrid is faster. It's not about speed, it's about ability to do the job and handle the stresses that police put on the cars. On paper, an outsider would assume that the hybrid would make a better car being that it's cheap on gas and faster than a gas guzzling crown vic, but it isn't the case.

The fuel thing is a drawback however the initial cost of the hybrid, plus maintenance, plus fixing it after an accident, and throwing it away after a few years as it can't be recycled makes it less economically viable. When you then factor in that it can not sustain high speeds, can't turn on 4 space saver tires that aren't rated for anything above highway driving, and can't stop multiple times from high speeds it makes the idea of a being a police vehicle just beyond stupid. When the camrys crap out the police throw them away...and they were purchased in 2010. Officers on IMPD are still driving 1999 crown vics. If you get rear ended, you cut the thing in half and weld it up to one that rear ended someone else BOOM brand new car. Sure the front is a 99 and the rear is an '07 but it works.

Luckily the new breed of cars out there are good on gas, give good performance and still can carry the "police package" badge. Dodge's new pentastar engine gets better MPG than the crown vic and almost 70HP more in a lighter package. For another 70HP you can get the HEMI which shuts down cylinders when cruising. Fords ECO boost is insane. Really good gas milage and flatten-your-eyeballs fast.

The shift now is to make gas milage less of an issue in police cars which is a positive. The negative is that they're all unibody where as the old crown vic was a body-on-frame design like a truck. Essentially the cars will get better gas milage but thrown away earlier.

 

[Trigger Time]

That's a very good breakdown that explains a lot. So I wonder why ford stopped the crown Vic line?

 

[j706]

That's a very good breakdown that explains a lot. So I wonder why ford stopped the crown Vic line?

Low profits as the police car business is actually small. The Ford Panther (CV and Mercury cousin) series over the last five years or so was shrinking with the non governmental sales. And that is where their profit is at.

On the cars subject another thing I have noticed is the lighter duty cars such as the V6 Chargers just don't cut it. We got a 12 car fleet of V6 Chargers in 09. Good grief talk about an abortion!! Those things were PITA's from week one. Even the admin and bean counters readily admit that purchase was a huge costly mistake. ZERO decrease in fuel costs and a 500% increase in maintenance cost's. We have one or two for pool cars now and still have around four or five 05 CV's. Our county''s Sheriff's department made the same mistake. They dumped the V6's and went to the Hemi Chargers with much better results. Don't know what the difference is but it is something other than a fluke.

 

[Horse]

Somehow the vast majority of the police forces on this planet make due with smaller cars and motorcycles. I bet you could manage too.

I'm not sure if I am just feeding the troll - but -
Having lived outside the US for some time let me familiarize you with some of the other situations you ignore:

In Chile the Carabineros use motorcycles a LOT.

At one point there were so many getting garroted that they started not using them, or riding with medieval type armor protecting the face and neck. They also started using 3 man teams instead of 2, but with 2 cycles. One would ride facing backward on a two man cycle so that they could protect their 6. These guys often ride in full plate ballistic armor and tactical gear as they are so exposed. Many have died, some even from Molotov cocktales - totally and completely unacceptable.
The other staple vehicle in their daily use list is the Chevy Crew Cab Luv truck:

loaded with at least 2, but more commonly 4 officers, and a mini-padi wagon in the bed. Notice the wire cages around the windows? Thats not there for decoration or special anti-riot duty, its standard equipment on all of them.


I knew several Carabineros when I lived in Chile, and ALL of them wanted a Vic.
They wanted the protection, the ability to "get there" and more importantly "get away" properly. The poor guys assigned to cyles liked the outdoor feeling, for about the first week. They had to ride them every day, rain or snow or shine. They rode them through majority unpaved streets etc. Most had had rocks or branches thrown at them or had people try to steal the cycles when they were on foot. It was not a winning proposition.

 

[ghunter]

I'd rather have my vic (2002 interceptor) over an SUV because SUVs can be a little top heavy. This can be an issue when responding to a hot run where more spirited driving is required. I'm very sad that the vic is going the way of the Dodo bird.

 

[AD Marc]

car and driver did a recent review of the two new ford offerings. It's not really centered on police use, more on driving dynamics, but it gives a good idea about how they stack up. All the cops I've talked to really like their new explorers.

2012 Ford Police Interceptor / Interceptor Utility First Drive – Review – Car and Driver

 

[j706]

I'd rather have my vic (2002 interceptor) over an SUV because SUVs can be a little top heavy. This can be an issue when responding to a hot run where more spirited driving is required. I'm very sad that the vic is going the way of the Dodo bird.

I always thought SUV's would be top heavy until I drove a 2012 pursuit rated Tahoe (2X2). IMO it handled very well. Matter of fact I think it would run circles around a CV on any road course.

 

[Gabriel]

I like my Vic, but our department is going to the Ford Explorers for all patrol officers. The pursuit package is lowered and handles well, plus the extra room for all the gear we carry will be nice.

 

[IndyDave1776]

I like my Vic, but our department is going to the Ford Explorers for all patrol officers. The pursuit package is lowered and handles well, plus the extra room for all the gear we carry will be nice.

I can believe this! I have seen officers open the trunks on their CVs and I swear that had I dumped a bucket of water in the trunk, it would have run over the top of the stuff in the trunk and down the back of the car.