Confederate Flag

[ATF Consumer]

IF THIS SHIRT OFFENDS YOU.. YOU NEED A HISTORY LESSON Rebel Flag - White T-Shirt: theGROOVEshack.com

and a bathing suit too!

I never had the urge to eat a flag until now

 

[slackerisme]

You know what they say, the winners get to write the history books. No one will ever be taught the real reason behind that war in schools unfortunately. Well maybe after the next one.

 

[slackerisme]

Slavery was the primary reason for the Civil War. It is the reason that the South left the Union. Note how the denser the slave population of the South, the quicker they were to leave the Union and the less likely they were to have Union troops (all the CSA states had pro-Union troops, excepting South Carolina, the home to the greatest slave population).

Go to the state museums in the South. Look at their petitions to leave the Union. What is always near the top of their reasons? Slavery.

Read what the Vice President of the CSA said about the CSA, why it existed. Slavery. (The Cornerstone speech in Georgia).

States rights was a cover story invented after the Civil War by Early and the rest of the Lost Causers. The Myth of the Lost Cause and Civil War History / Indiana University Press

Read about how slavery was the underlying cause of the Civil War (at least to the South): Amazon.com: Look Away!: A History of the Confederate States of America (9780684865850): William C. Davis: Books

The South used to be open to their reasons for beginning the Civil War, but then they lost the war and another reason had to be constructed.

Kirk, I will not dispute your facts, however I think there is something deeper here. The north had the industrial base, the factories that needed the raw materials from the south to be productive. The south saw the north telling them that slaves could no longer be held as an insult. Essentially, turning all white southerners into slaves for the industrial north.

 

[whiskeytangofoxtrot]

Kirk, I will not dispute your facts, however I think there is something deeper here. The north had the industrial base, the factories that needed the raw materials from the south to be productive. The south saw the north telling them that slaves could no longer be held as an insult. Essentially, turning all white southerners into slaves for the industrial north.

Exactly, also the North was looking at forcing laws down the throat of the South since the North had the superior numbers in voting.

This can also be traced back to the whole free state/slave state debate they had in the 1850's with Kansas, Nebraska, and Missouri Territories.

The Civil War was caused by various things, it was in fact a perfect storm. A few Southerners decided that they were not going to take it anymore and the rest is history.

 

[inxs]

Yep, fighting was about control and don't forget taxes. Other wise why would they free slaves (Confederation had strict standards that only free men could fight) so they could fight for the South?

 

[SavageEagle]

The Civil War was caused by various things, it was in fact a perfect storm. A few Southerners decided that they were not going to take it anymore and the rest is history.

A cautionary tale of the future if American's don't wake up soon!

 

[whiskeytangofoxtrot]

A cautionary tale of the future if American's don't wake up soon!

I was going to say that, but I didn't want to get anyone going off in a tanget about the present day.

 

[4sarge]

PC

Outlaw this flag or thought

and then how long before these flags and free thoughts are outlawed

The Left is already declaring the above a a terrorist mark

 

[SavageEagle]

I was going to say that, but I didn't want to get anyone going off in a tanget about the present day.

I ain't skeered! I'm already locked into a debate about isolationism vs noninterventionalism....

The Left is already declaring the above a a terrorist mark

<----labeled a terrorist for flyin said flag out front of my house!

 

[Lucas156]

Interesting enough, most people don't know that the civil war had nothing to do with slavery. It was about the states fighting the federal government for their right not to be controlled. They lost, but interesting enough we still have state laws and federal laws? And an interesting side note.... seems that history tends to repeat itself.

Thank you for pointing that out RNM I was thinking that this whole thread. Since it had nothing to do with slavery I am still wondering to this day why people associate it with racism. Anybody here ever read "The South Was Right?"

 

[Lucas156]

Slavery was the primary reason for the Civil War. It is the reason that the South left the Union. Note how the denser the slave population of the South, the quicker they were to leave the Union and the less likely they were to have Union troops (all the CSA states had pro-Union troops, excepting South Carolina, the home to the greatest slave population).

Go to the state museums in the South. Look at their petitions to leave the Union. What is always near the top of their reasons? Slavery.

Read what the Vice President of the CSA said about the CSA, why it existed. Slavery. (The Cornerstone speech in Georgia).

States rights was a cover story invented after the Civil War by Early and the rest of the Lost Causers. The Myth of the Lost Cause and Civil War History / Indiana University Press

Read about how slavery was the underlying cause of the Civil War (at least to the South): Amazon.com: Look Away!: A History of the Confederate States of America (9780684865850): William C. Davis: Books

The South used to be open to their reasons for beginning the Civil War, but then they lost the war and another reason had to be constructed.

Well you know what they say-whichever side wins the war gets to rewrite history.

 

[whiskeytangofoxtrot]

Slavery was the primary reason for the Civil War. It is the reason that the South left the Union. Note how the denser the slave population of the South, the quicker they were to leave the Union and the less likely they were to have Union troops (all the CSA states had pro-Union troops, excepting South Carolina, the home to the greatest slave population).

Go to the state museums in the South. Look at their petitions to leave the Union. What is always near the top of their reasons? Slavery.

Read what the Vice President of the CSA said about the CSA, why it existed. Slavery. (The Cornerstone speech in Georgia).

States rights was a cover story invented after the Civil War by Early and the rest of the Lost Causers. The Myth of the Lost Cause and Civil War History / Indiana University Press

Read about how slavery was the underlying cause of the Civil War (at least to the South): Amazon.com: Look Away!: A History of the Confederate States of America (9780684865850): William C. Davis: Books

The South used to be open to their reasons for beginning the Civil War, but then they lost the war and another reason had to be constructed.

It was more of the reason, but not because of the oppression it caused. Slave owning southerners were mostly richer, more well off Southern people. When the Union wanted to free the slaves, it would be like the Union giving away every farmer of now days tractor and other farm implements. Slaves were worth a lot of money in that day, and they weren't going to give them up for nothing and for the Northern states since they didn't use much of the slave trade.

This also effected their economy. The South was very wealthy because of thier cotton crop. If the slaves were freed in such a short amount of time, who would work the fields and harvest it? The whole argument was mostly over the slaves but it was argued over the aspect of the Southern economy going in the toilet because of emancipation.

Partly the reason of the Union for being a little hostile is because of the money that the South pulled in from exporting the cotton to places like England and such. Hence the phrase "King Cotton".

 

[SavageEagle]

It was more of the reason, but not because of the oppression it caused. Slave owning southerners were mostly richer, more well off Southern people. When the Union wanted to free the slaves, it would be like the Union giving away every farmer of now days tractor. Slaves were worth a lot of money in that day, and they weren't going to give them up.

This also effected their economy. The South was very wealthy because of thier cotton crop. If the slaves were freed in such a short amount of time, who would work the fields and harvest it. Partly the reason of the Union for being a little hostile is because of the money that the South pulled in from exporting the cotton to places like England and such. Hence the phrase "King Cotton".

Not that I'm disagreeing, but they could have paid them? Some were, yes, most were not.

 

[SC_Shooter]

Thank you for pointing that out RNM I was thinking that this whole thread. Since it had nothing to do with slavery I am still wondering to this day why people associate it with racism.

Well, slavery was an emotional issue and it made for a better rally cry to gain public support for the war to say "we're doing this to free people who have been enslaved" than to say "we're doing this to show some of the states that we can do whatever we want and they better get on board with it."

As I posted earlier, the mindset about slavery was starting to change on it's own throughout the South, just as it had only 15-years earlier in some of the Northern states. Slavery was AN issue. It was THE issue for the North, but not for the South. It was about not having laws forced upon the states. The particular law that set off the war was regarding slavery, but there were many others before it that set the stage.

Think of it in today's terms. Were there a few hundred thousand protesters in Washington last week because of the health care issue? Nope. Are people out there bashing their Representatives in Town Hall meetings about health care? Nope. Health care is simply the issue that got them in the same room. The anger today is a culmination of dozens of issues where the government has seized more and more control and removed more and more free choice and general freedoms from the public.

It really isn't all that different.

 

[whiskeytangofoxtrot]

Not that I'm disagreeing, but they could have paid them? Some were, yes, most were not.

I agree they could have paid them, but why give up your good manpower that makes you money for just some cash and then not have the income coming in like previously with the manpower.

 

[SavageEagle]

I agree they could have paid them, but why give up your good manpower that makes you money for just some cash and then not have the income coming in like previously with the manpower.

Not like they were hurting for money in the first place.

 

[whiskeytangofoxtrot]

Not like they were hurting for money in the first place.

Yeah and the most likely reason they wouldn't take payment is because you can't eat the money. Grant had effectively cut off the south from the Mississippi in the West early on and the Atlantic blockade kept most shipments of anything from getting in.

After the first two years the South was struggling because they couldn't import anything and they couldn't sell the cotton because of the blockade. They weren't about to take anything that the Union would put on them, so they suffered.

 

[SavageEagle]

Yeah and the most likely reason they wouldn't take payment is because you can't eat the money. Grant had effectively cut off the south from the Mississippi in the West early on and the Atlantic blockade kept most shipments of anything from getting in.

After the first two years the South was struggling because they couldn't import anything and they couldn't sell the cotton because of the blockade. They weren't about to take anything that the Union would put on them, so they suffered.

True but had they paid them before the war started there wouldn't have been so much lose of life. They may have been able to work out a deal. Not all diplomatic options were exhausted.

 

[whiskeytangofoxtrot]

True but had they paid them before the war started there wouldn't have been so much lose of life. They may have been able to work out a deal. Not all diplomatic options were exhausted.

It all came to the Union trying to impose things on the South, so they became defiant. At that point the South wasn't going to hear anything unless it was a peace treaty. They literaly exhausted as many men and resources just to get to 1865, in hopes of dragging it one long enough for the anti-war Democrats to gain control of congress. The South was counting on this and for the Dems to get a peace accord through before the North broke out into protests like the south did 5 years earlier. (See the end of Gangs of New York, those protests were around the same time.)

That was the whole point of Lee heading into Pennsylvania to finally break the North's will to fight. After the secession, nothing mattered to the South, but being totally defiant to the North and the Union controllers.

 

[csaws]

Money was the primary reason for the Civil War. It is the reason that the South left the Union.

FIFY

Also if ya want a good look into Lincoln, read The Real Abraham Lincoln.