Confederate Flag

[redneckmedic]

Sooo, what are your thoughts on those who "proudly" fly the southern colors? Here are the most popular arguments:

1. It's not hate its heritage! I'm proud its a part of our history.
2. The south lost the war get over it! Your a racist!

My take:

I don't fly Southern Colors, I never have, I don't get it. I don't really think that you (whoever flies the southern colors) expects any of us that you are flying the "stars and bars" because of some kind of sentimental memory you have with this flag. Really?!? I'm from the south, lived there almost 20yrs and this flag played 0% influence on my life or anyone I knew.

So my suspicion is that you (who flies the colors of the south) are just being passive aggressive. You can deny all you want, but when it comes down to it, your making a statement.

However I am willing to be open-minded here and would like for someone to debate the other side.

​

 

[hotfarmboy1]

I kinda wonder this too. Occasionally I see a guy down the road with one waving off the back of his dodge power wagon (the bronco/blazer like dodge). That and when I told a guy at work what my plans were for 9/11 he started to say he thought I should fly the confederate flag instead.

 

[redneckmedic]

Yeah there is a family on U.S. 40 just before Greenfield (just west) that used to fly a Confederate flag on his front porch....now he fly's two. Sheeesh

 

[ATF Consumer]

What is sad is that not one other nation had to fight a war to end slavery.

 

[LEaSH]

I respect the south's heritage. I don't believe the flag is a symbol of racism, except when those groups try to make it one (klans and groups like them). But there's a whole "Southern Pride" thing that has nothing to do with white supremacy.

If minority groups want to remain hypersensitive about slavery and injustices done to previous generations, they have that right as well. It's undoubtedly true that people were treated horribly for along time - all over the country. It's time to move on in my opinion.

I try not to be a Prideful person, if I can. It's counterproductive to leading a decent existence. I see enough overly-proud parents to make me sick. I just try to keep myself in check. And Shame can do harm as well. I've felt shame when I've done wrong - but i'm not going to let someone else shame me for things that happened before I was born!
There is a condition I notice more in every type of person nowadays: Lack of Shame. Which is borderline sociopathic behavior as far as I'm concern. Despicable, too.
Pride and Shame are things that aren't discussed enough in churches and places of spiritual enlightenment.

 

[rc5699]

I went to southside high school. Which is home to the Rebels. We had just as many black students as we did white while I was there. So I grew up with the confederate flag being fought over non stop.

When I first started HS it was acceptable to display the flag, by the time I graduated it was outlawed and you'd get in serious trouble if you had one on your t-shirt, hat, car or any where else.

Also by the time I had gotten out of there they were also tearing down a mosaic tile mural, Because it only shown white students. Which back when it was made by the artist - 50 years ago - only whites went to South side. So they tore it down and rebuilt it adding a black kid, A mexican kid, a yellow kid, a red kid and a zebra striped kid for good measure.

I never cared about having or displaying a rebel flag, But at the same time I thought it was pretty damn stupid to be a South Side Rebel and get suspended for having one.

 

[csaws]

I kinda wonder this too. Occasionally I see a guy down the road with one waving off the back of his dodge Ramcharger(the bronco/blazer like dodge). That and when I told a guy at work what my plans were for 9/11 he started to say he thought I should fly the confederate flag instead.

FIFY

If ya ever want a history lesson on the civil war go to Asheville, NC and walk downtown, look for the old black man in the confederate soldier uniform... he will explain the truth to ya.

 

[haldir]

I think that for a lot of people it is a heritage thing. Their grandfathers fought for the South and they are proud of that heritage. Part of this is the gloriousness of the lost cause. These brave men fought against what they felt was the usurpation of State's rights by the Federal Government, knowing they were outnumbered and outsupplied. Part of it is just familial. I know people of Celtic origin that have a Scottish flag, go to the Highland games. How far back is that stuff in their history. So like most symbols it can mean different things to different people. Personally I think it is a shame that the racist groups have attached such a negative aura around it. Of course the PC crowd just has a fit over it. I wouldn't mind flying it just to tweak the nose of the libs.

 

[whiskeytangofoxtrot]

In some southern states it is flown because of heritage, such as in South Carolina, where the Confederacy had started. I suspect that now days it isn't flown much from heritage since it has been quite a few generations since anyone has lived from that era.

I had taken a civil war class in college and we discussed this very question, I'll have to dig that book out and I'll cite the points on it for discussion. I think I had written a paper on it too if I can find it.

Not too long after the Civil War ended southerners will flew the flag on principles to show that they would not be bullied around by a controlling federal government. That sentiment could be re-emerging because of the current attitudes towards government now.

Other than these reasons I've listed, there are some dbags who fly it just to get some riled up about it, and again these morons tend to also not understand anything about the Civil War and why it was fought. Some just assume it was over the rights to the slave trade. As much as I don't like it there is nothing you can do but pay no attention to these types.

 

[redneckmedic]

What is sad is that not one other nation had to fight a war to end slavery.

Interesting enough, most people don't know that the civil war had nothing to do with slavery. It was about the states fighting the federal government for their right not to be controlled. They lost, but interesting enough we still have state laws and federal laws? And an interesting side note.... seems that history tends to repeat itself.

I respect the south's heritage. I don't believe the flag is a symbol of racism, except when those groups try to make it one (klans and groups like them). But there's a whole "Southern Pride" thing that has nothing to do with white supremacy.

If minority groups want to remain hypersensitive about slavery and injustices done to previous generations, they have that right as well. It's undoubtedly true that people were treated horribly for along time - all over the country. It's time to move on in my opinion.

To take that a step further.... I don't know why a noose is a symbol of white supremacy or actually a racist symbol to blacks when many more women were hanged than black's ever were.

 

[matthock]

What is sad is that not one other nation had to fight a war to end slavery.

Slavery was really an incidental factor in the civil war - more a symptom than a cause (there were people from the period on record as disapproving of the Gettysburg Address because they felt that it would taint the historical perspective on the matter too much towards the slavery issue). The issue was over states rights in general, and slavery was one area the federal government was getting pushier about taking over from the states.

Actually, looking at Wikipedia, it seems shifting the perspective in the north was one of Lincoln's reasons for the speech. A lot of people were getting unhappy with the war and especially the draft - he wanted to get into people's mind a higher purpose to try to raise morale to keep the war operations from derailing.

 

[Bill of Rights]

I also went to a HS named for General Lee. The Stars and Bars represent the concept incorrectly called "states' rights" to me. The fedgov had no business trying to make slaves of 13 states because the states wanted to leave. The Constitution is a contract between the sovereign states that form the country, a contract which the fedgov violated in attempting to control the internal affairs of the Southern states.

Make no mistake, I do not defend the enslavement of people, whether as individuals to other individuals or as entire states held involuntarily in bondage to other states or to a collective group they all help form.

The Confederate Battle Flag has been misrepresented as symbolic of slavery by and to many people, of whom Black people are but one subset, just as a noose has been misrepresented as symbolic of racism specifically against Black people.

Our ancestors saw the encroachment upon "states' rights" as the camel's nose under the tent. My only question is, this long after the fact and with the benefit of hindsight, why don't we?

Blessings,
Bill

 

[whiskeytangofoxtrot]

Sooo, what are your thoughts on those who "proudly" fly the southern colors? Here are the most popular arguments:

1. It's not hate its heritage! I'm proud its a part of our history.
2. The south lost the war get over it! Your a racist!

My take:

I don't fly Southern Colors, I never have, I don't get it. I don't really think that you (whoever flies the southern colors) expects any of us that you are flying the "stars and bars" because of some kind of sentimental memory you have with this flag. Really?!? I'm from the south, lived there almost 20yrs and this flag played 0% influence on my life or anyone I knew.

So my suspicion is that you (who flies the colors of the south) are just being passive aggressive. You can deny all you want, but when it comes down to it, your making a statement.

However I am willing to be open-minded here and would like for someone to debate the other side.

I have to have that shirt!

 

[SC_Shooter]

Having grown up in SC and having plenty of family and friends there and in GA, I've seen a few sides of this argument that seem appropriate to share.

First of all, yes there are definitely those who see and use the Confederate flag as a symbol of their own prejudices and disdain for people who are "different looking" than they are. That point can't be argued and is ridiculous in my opinion. People who see and use the Confederate flag in this manner are hateful people by nature and not the kind of good folks I personally want to have at my BBQ grill.

Secondly, in SC we were required to complete two years of South Carolina history in order to graduate from high school. To me, that was one of the greatest requirements of our basic education in that we were required to know our State and to understand how it got to be where it is today. We learned the goo, bad and ugly and let me assure you there was plenty of all three.

The initial succession from the Union by South Carolina and several other states was not (contrary to popular belief) about slavery per se. It was about States' rights and, specifically, about the issue that an incoming president was attempting to single-handedly declare changes to laws in states without those changes being approved by the States themselves and ratified by their voters.

It had been less than a hundred years since the US had won it's independence from the English and people were more than a little concerned about dictatorial sounding proclamations from the President. Yes, the President was trying to mandate changes regarding slavery, but keep in mind that a VERY small portion of the populations in the states that succeeded owned slaves. Certainly not enough to cause a succession and start a war over slavery.

Instead, the population as a whole were not of the belief that the government in Washington should be mandating behavior in the States. The belief was that Washington should be more concerned about infrastructure and foreign issues and that the States should be more concerned about their own affairs.

The population as a whole (you know...the ones who were actually fighting) were not fighting to preserve slavery. They were fighting to preserve States' rights. In spite of the particular issue it was over, I am proud that our citizenry at one point in time had the strength to say "no, you can't do that" to Washington.

I in no way whatsoever condone the years of slavery that existed any more than I condone the fact that women were once not able to vote or have bank accounts. As a nation, we've done some pretty stupid things in our past that made all the sense in the world...until later when we realized they didn't make any sense at all. The issue of slavery was no different.

When I see the Confederate Flag, I don't view it as a symbol of racism, slavery, hatred or anything of the sort - though I also don't try to pretend that some people out there DO see it that way. I see it as a symbol of the courage many of our states had at one time to draw a line in the sand and say "no" to Washington. I see it more as an issue of States' Rights. I don't fly the Confederate Flag, have it tattooed on my arm or anything like that, but I also don't automatically paint those who do with the KKK brush because of what I learned about SC history.

The ironic point that has been lost over the years is that there was a lot of talk at that time in SC about abolishing slavery anyway, but as with most major changes, nothing was moving very quickly and there were concerns about what would happen if the vast majority of the workforce processing cotton, cane, etc. simply vanished all at once. Change was coming and the people of SC wanted it. They simply would not stand for having change mandated upon them by Washington.

Keep in mind that Delaware, New York, New Hampshire, Connecticut, Pennsylvania, Vermont, Ohio and a few other Northern States were slave states as well...some of them until just a few years before the American Civil War. There was plenty of wrong to go around and that wrong lasted much longer in the agricultural areas of the South than in the North.

 

[redneckmedic]

I have to have that shirt!

IF THIS SHIRT OFFENDS YOU.. YOU NEED A HISTORY LESSON Rebel Flag - White T-Shirt: theGROOVEshack.com

and a bathing suit too!

 

[whiskeytangofoxtrot]

IF THIS SHIRT OFFENDS YOU.. YOU NEED A HISTORY LESSON Rebel Flag - White T-Shirt: theGROOVEshack.com

and a bathing suit too!

I'll take two as long as she comes with it...back on topic. Sorry all.

 

[JetGirl]

Dixie cups!

 

[SC_Shooter]

Dixie cups!

Way too funny!!!

 

[SavageEagle]

In High School I mounted one on the back of my truck and flew it to school one morning and left it there. This is Plainfield HS mind you.

The ***. Principal (pun intended) came to get me from my second period class. Pulled me out of class and told me I had to take it down because I offended some kids. He also called me a racist. I told him to call them to the conference room so we could all talk. HE refused. I became friends with those same people.

My reason for flying the Rebel Flag? Because I was a rebel and that flag was representative of that American Attitude. That's the explaination I gave the principal and told him I would not take it down because it's my right to fly that flag. It wasn't distracting class so he couldn't legally make me take it down.



I'm far from being a racist and I don't believe the south will rise again. I believe states in general will tell the Fed's to :fawk: though.

 

[Kirk Freeman]

Slavery was really an incidental factor in the civil war - more a symptom than a cause

Slavery was the primary reason for the Civil War. It is the reason that the South left the Union. Note how the denser the slave population of the South, the quicker they were to leave the Union and the less likely they were to have Union troops (all the CSA states had pro-Union troops, excepting South Carolina, the home to the greatest slave population).

Go to the state museums in the South. Look at their petitions to leave the Union. What is always near the top of their reasons? Slavery.

Read what the Vice President of the CSA said about the CSA, why it existed. Slavery. (The Cornerstone speech in Georgia).

States rights was a cover story invented after the Civil War by Early and the rest of the Lost Causers. The Myth of the Lost Cause and Civil War History / Indiana University Press

Read about how slavery was the underlying cause of the Civil War (at least to the South): Amazon.com: Look Away!: A History of the Confederate States of America (9780684865850): William C. Davis: Books

The South used to be open to their reasons for beginning the Civil War, but then they lost the war and another reason had to be constructed.