Concealment and Dependability

[Relatively Ninja]

If we're playing make-believe, I would suggest a Taurus Judge loaded with 000 buckshot. But in the real world my answer is an XD9 SC because that is the only gun I own. Why do I only own one gun? Because I'm not as big a gun nut as the rest of you psychotic killers.

 

[adventures47129]

10 ft seems to be your only option... I practice closer and much further. It would be nice if what may happen will be at 10 ft. I carry a CW9 for the comfort in hand, accuracy, and dependability at all distances within reason.

 

[00BlasterResto]

I tried several,
started with a 92fs.... way to big and heavy
went for a p226.... still to big and heavy
A glock 23C for a bit, I am not a fan of how glocks aim though. Also did not like the "C"
tried a LCP for a while, but it just wasn't enouph ( I actually had bad dreams over it, no BS)
A S&W 66, but it just wasn't the carry gun for me.
I carryed a CW9 for a while and although I liked it, I decided the trigger pull was to hard. The glock being not much bigger holds twice the number of rounds with a much faster rapid fire.
which has lead me back to a glock 23, which I usually carry as a 9mm with a S.L. conversion barrel. I chose the 23 because it is the same frame as a 19 and I like to have the option of 9mm or .40

 

[iChokePeople]

Full-sized 1911. Because I can and don't have to make excuses about range and cal. Nothing feels like a good 1911. Nothing.

 

[Drail]

S&W .44 Spl. revolver with heavy loads because when I hit things with it they generally fall down. Just one hit. No unsightly brass left laying around and no feed problems. I do love 1911 .45 ACPs though. But only for friendly games.

 

[INyooper]

My top choice?

Glock G27 w/ +1 Pearce mag extension (10 rounds, +1 in the chamber) and a spare G23 mag. = 24 rounds of 40 caliber.

-or-

Glock G30sf w/ 10 round mag (+1 in chamber) and a spare G21 mag. = 24 rounds of 45.

Except for the physical size and caliber, they're essentially the same gun (I know, you can say that about all Glocks ). The G27 is noticeably lighter, and gets carried more often. But I do have a soft spot in my heart for the 45ACP.

 

[Issachar1]

Kel-Tec P3AT is my choice for concealed carry at this point. Not as much fun to shoot as my trusty Glock 17, but it hides really well. In the market for an ankle holster, though.

 

[finity]

I have several I COULD carry but the one I usually carry is my Keltec P11.

Compact, 9mm, 8 rounds, not a hiccup since I replaced the extractor claw.

 

[Jay]

1911, because I've carried one for over 35 years, and in this state, I don't have to conceal it.

 

[Paco Bedejo]

Forget accuracy (doesn't matter at 10 feet.)

I find it odd that you think you can set the rules of engagement... If a 5" sight radius is misaligned by 1/2" at 10', you've just grazed a 2' wide target. If you're misaligned by 1" at 10', you just missed a 2' wide target by 1'.

Forget caliber (shouldn't matter at 10 feet.)

I've read plenty of accounts which indicate your assertion isn't quite accurate. Clothing, biochemical boosts, cover, etc. If you're in a naked duel, you're probably right, but again, you don't get to set the rules of engagement.

Forget how purty it is...

Here, we are in total agreement.

Which handgun is your TOP choice for both:

1. CONCEALMENT
2. SAVING YOUR LIFE

I carry a full size XDm40 all day every day in an office setting where the insurance company says that's a "no-no"...so I really don't get why people think "concealment" is a feature only found in certain pistol frames. IWB tuckable holster, sturdy belt, and getting used to a slight amount of discomfort are all you need to conceal any pistol...unless you're built like my 11 year old niece. In which case, you probably can't control anything larger than .380 anyhow...

As far as saving my life goes, I desire to carry the pistol which best balances magazine capacity, dependability, & kinetic energy delivered to target while remaining adequately accurate during the first & follow-up shots, in my hands. Toward that end, I'm currently pondering a switch from my XDm40 to a Glock 20 (10mm Auto). I'm a big fella & have absolutely no problem bringing the XDm40 back onto target for quick follow-up shots whether using one or two hands, aligning the sights or point-shooting. I'd like to see if I can handle the 10mm Auto cartridge equally well since it increases the chance of causing hydrostatic shock due to its velocity & kinetic energy and is one of the most powerful rounds available in an auto-loader. My goal in a self-defense situation is to stop capable-malice...not kill people. Fewer, more powerful shots work best toward that end.

 

[rugertoter]

Bersa 40 and a RIA 1911

I currently carry either my LCP or Taurus Millenium in 9mm. Say, how does your Bersa 40 run for you?

 

[dom1104]

Colt 21st Century Commander.

 

[Jay]

I would certainly hope that no shooter could fail to notice a sight system that is mis-aligned by either a 1/2" or 1" , and take steps to remedy a situation that drastic.

 

[Paco Bedejo]

I would certainly hope that no shooter could fail to notice a sight system that is mis-aligned by either a 1/2" or 1" , and take steps to remedy a situation that drastic.

Hehe, I agree. I was just pointing out that if the shooter (the 3rd part in a 2-sight system) doesn't use them right (under duress), you can graze or miss wide at 10'. While I don't foresee this happening much at the range, it does happen frequently in defense/police shootings where most shooters often focus on their target & don't see their sights at all.

 

[Jay]

Hehe, I agree. I was just pointing out that if the shooter (the 3rd part in a 2-sight system) doesn't use them right (under duress), you can graze or miss wide at 10'. While I don't foresee this happening much at the range, it does happen frequently in defense/police shootings where most shooters often focus on their target & don't see their sights at all.

Proficiency isn't always possible with perhaps "limited" training for some shooters.... police or civilian......

 

[jd42k]

I first carried a Taurus .380. Biggest .380 I've ever held. Will sell that someday. Next carried a Beretta .25 tip up. I think cause I liked the holster that looked like a wallet and one could fire the gun in the holster. Next I carried a Smith & Wesson Sigma 9mm. What a POS. I finally complained to Smith & Wesson after sending for repairs two times and they gladly replaced the Sigma with a 9sve.
My daily carry for the last few years is a Springfield 9mm SC. To date this is what works the best and is the most reliable gun I've owned.
JD

 

[fastwally]

I carry a P3AT all the time and a PX4 Storm SC most of the time.

 

[60Driver]

While I agree that reliabilty should be the #1 priority for a defensive sidearm, I respectfully submit that accuracy and caliber DO MATTER. Some interesting thoughts from Larry Vickers on the subject:

"As anyone who has taken one of my classes can attest I am very accuracy oriented. My classes always stress a high degree of accuracy. That is because in a gunfight accuracy will almost always suffer. There are many reasons for this not the least of which is you may very well be receiving fire from your assailant. In addition there is a high likelihood that you will be moving, your enemy may be moving, and it could be in an environment of limited visibility.
All of these factors and countless others will have a negative affect on accuracy. The hope is that if you strive for a high degree of accuracy in your training that when your accuracy suffers in a gunfight, it will still be enough to get the job done. This approach has been used with great effectiveness in Tier One special operations units for years. I am a product of that school of thought, and I have trained a great many of these soldiers with that approach uppermost in my mind.
Whenever I teach drills, I always tell my students to shoot as fast as they can, but not at the expense of a reasonable accuracy standard. One of the techniques I use frequently is to place a 25 yd pistol bullseye center target on the chest area of an IPSC or IDPA target. I then tell the students to shoot as fast as they can on each and every drill but always strive to keep the shots in the black of the bullseye. On drills such as shooting on the move this is opened up to keep your shots on the replacement center paper. This is commonly known as the “aim small, miss small” approach. Part way through the first day I will peel off the bullseye and show the students the large ragged hole that inevitable results from this drill. This reinforces the teaching point that speed is fine, but accuracy is final – words that I live by.
Another question I get frequently asked is what is the acceptable mechanical or intrinsic accuracy for a service pistol or carbine. Meaning what should the weapon/ammo combination be capable of producing from a shooting device or rest that eliminates shooter error. Keep in mind I come from a surgical accuracy oriented special operations background with little margin for error. Based on this and years of experience I have concluded that a service pistol should be capable of head shots at 25 yds and a service carbine should be capable of the same at 100 yds – basically 5 inch groups. However there is a catch; I have found that under conditions of stress a shooter will only be able to shoot to within roughly 50 % of the accuracy potential of a given weapon. And that is only for the best shooters; the majority will not even be close to that. That means in order to achieve my standard of head shots (5 inch groups) at a given distance the weapon/ammo combination needs to be capable of at least 2.5 inch groups. I personally measure that accuracy standard with 10 shot groups. Many quality service pistols and carbines with good ammo will achieve this but there are many other factors involved such as sights and trigger pull characteristics. By these criteria it is not hard to see why a tuned 1911 pistol is so popular in selected spec ops units. Keep in mind that any effort to make a weapon more accurate almost always means tightening tolerances which can lead to a less than acceptable reliability standard for a combat weapon. A balance between accuracy and reliability has to be achieved. Surprisingly there are many pistols and carbines that do a good job offering an acceptable blend of both. In addition weapons of this type will require a higher degree of end user maintenance to keep them running. Don’t expect a pistol to shoot like a custom 1911 but be as forgiving about maintenance as a Glock 17; it just doesn’t happen that way.
In closing always strive to maintain a high degree of accuracy in your training sessions. It will serve you well in case you ever have to use your weapon for real. Remember the motto of this website: Speed is fine – Accuracy is final."

My primary choices, Baer Commander sized 1911 or HK P7. Why?

1. Both have proven exceptionally reliable
2. Both have a very high degree of intrinsic accuracy
3. Both fire a substantial caliber with excellent and proven ammo choices available
4. Only after the above criteria are met they are relatively concealable and comfortable to carry.

As always just my

 

[ccolip2189]

glock 26 or my 1911

 

[Dogman]

G27/ G26 or Kahr PM9