College education doesn't always mean you're smarter

[hoosierdoc]

Gonna go cry on my debt now

careful, it's probably pretty steep!

 

[Mr Evilwrench]

Your degree is largely an illusion, a load of debt for some basic information, but you won't likely make anything useful with it. You need to learn from someone that's forgotten more about your industry than you know to start with. I was lucky to find that. I was in one guy's office and picked up an artifact from his shelf. He asked "you know what that is?" In fact I did, and identified it as the cavity tuned oscillator from a Hewlett Packard 8640B signal generator. He was somewhat taken aback. You don't get that stuff at university, though.

 

[bonkers1919]

I know many people that allowed college to stand in the way of their education.

 

[churchmouse]

My Dad was an old-school engineer who came up through technical school, military experience, technician, assistant engineer, and then engineer- no college...well, there was the Ag School to learn how to manage a grain elevator, but that had limited application to designing missile guidance systems and, later, medical devices....but I digress.

Anyhoo, he had special "love" for the "college engineers"....who, if they were truly smart, started listening to the "old guys" sooner rather than later and if not, went into management.

Some of my most memorable conversations/confrontations on job sites was with the College educated engineers. Young and full of themselves.
When common sense and years of experience shut them down they would through the "I have a degree" card and go for trump.
They may have gotten "Their" way but we were always paid to come back and make it right. Right was most always my side of the initial conversation/confrontation.
I enjoyed working with and for guy's like your Dad.

 

[ViperJock]

I know several NASA engineers, a handful of doctors, a lawyer, two dentists, thirteen psychologists, and a big red dog that didn't go to college. Oh wait. No I don't. You guys are ridiculous. While college does not create intelligence (who says it does? Exactly?) it does provide additional knowledge and skills. You can sit here all day talking about anomalies of income and ability but at the end of the day, check out the average level of income depending on education completed. Oops, a wrench in your theory?

So in some ways college canbe more of a right of passage and certainly I had to take classes in things I will never "use," but I also learned a ton of stuff and had experienced that some of you will never get since you didn't go. Is it the end all be all? No. certainly not. A joke a friend of mine used to tell; "what do you call a guy who graduates at the bottom of his class?"

College sharpens the knife and in some cases prepares you for professional schooling in ways "on the job" schooling cannot. Again, since you didn't go, you don't get it. But let me put it in terms you understand. An intelligent mind is like ammo that gets on paper. Education gets the group into the X ring in a certain caliber at a certain distance. The more education you have the more calibers you can use, the farther you can shoot accurately, and the tighter your groups will be.

Sure, skills can be learned on the job and college educated liberals everywhere prove that education can be worthless, but college is about expanding your capacity for thought and knowledge. Like any other opportunity, it's what you make of it. So go on with your superiority complex which has unconscious roots in jealousy. I don't regret the time or money I spent there, because my life is richer for having gone. If you never had it, you can't miss it.

 

[churchmouse]

I know several NASA engineers, a handful of doctors, a lawyer, two dentists, thirteen psychologists, and a big red dog that didn't go to college. Oh wait. No I don't. You guys are ridiculous. While college does not create intelligence (who says it does? Exactly?) it does provide additional knowledge and skills. You can sit here all day talking about anomalies of income and ability but at the end of the day, check out the average level of income depending on education completed. Oops, a wrench in your theory?

So in some ways college canbe more of a right of passage and certainly I had to take classes in things I will never "use," but I also learned a ton of stuff and had experienced that some of you will never get since you didn't go. Is it the end all be all? No. certainly not. A joke a friend of mine used to tell; "what do you call a guy who graduates at the bottom of his class?"

College sharpens the knife and in some cases prepares you for professional schooling in ways "on the job" schooling cannot. Again, since you didn't go, you don't get it. But let me put it in terms you understand. An intelligent mind is like ammo that gets on paper. Education gets the group into the X ring in a certain caliber at a certain distance. The more education you have the more calibers you can use, the farther you can shoot accurately, and the tighter your groups will be.

Sure, skills can be learned on the job and college educated liberals everywhere prove that education can be worthless, but college is about expanding your capacity for thought and knowledge. Like any other opportunity, it's what you make of it. So go on with your superiority complex which has unconscious roots in jealousy. I don't regret the time or money I spent there, because my life is richer for having gone. If you never had it, you can't miss it.

Well......I guess my "Real" world experiences are just ridiculous. I am glad you were there to grade me/them.

Yes, the piece of paper does garner more money. Some do very well with it. My BIL is one of those people. Many of his class mates still struggle to this day as in the real world being able to actually do the job is still the key.

Not every person of education higher than mine that I know is not worthy.

 

[Libertarian01]

If I get to represent one more sociopath with paranoid delusions, I get a free sandwich!

Sir,

That is "...alleged sociopath..."

Sheesh! College degree and he forgets lawyer 101...?

Regards,

Doug

 

[ViperJock]

Well......I guess my "Real" world experiences are just ridiculous. I am glad you were there to grade me/them.

Yes, the piece of paper does garner more money. Some do very well with it. My BIL is one of those people. Many of his class mates still struggle to this day as in the real world being able to actually do the job is still the key.

Not every person of education higher than mine that I know is not worthy.

Church, I didn't belittle on the job training/real world training at all. My point is that college bashing is ridiculous. Its funny though that having thought I "graded" you was irritating and yet this thread grades every college grad as being some dumb noob who doesn't know wtf they are doing. I do appreciate the Irony.

 

[churchmouse]

Church, I didn't belittle on the job training/real world training at all. My point is that college bashing is ridiculous. Its funny though that having thought I "graded" you was irritating and yet this thread grades every college grad as being some dumb noob who doesn't know wtf they are doing. I do appreciate the Irony.

I see your point.
Posting before can be detrimental.
I am real world trained and have done well with that training. Never was a good student. I wanted to get my hands on it and run.

That said.....college is not for everyone.

 

[ViperJock]

I see your point.
Posting before can be detrimental.
I am real world trained and have done well with that training. Never was a good student. I wanted to get my hands on it and run.

That said.....college is not for everyone.

Agreed on all counts. Lol.

All jobs are important and not all require college education. I think a key point in the different views is what people view as the purpose and or meaning of life. If your purpose is to become immediately productive and learn to utilize the work place of their choice quickly and efficiently--college may not be right for you.

However, if life is about the journey not the destination and you can accept delayed gratification in terms of vocation and paycheck then college should be considered. Furthermore some professions are simply unavailable to you if you do not have a degree. In this way, college keeps options open and may be considered even if one would not otherwise be interested.

And many many variations in between. In defense of college boy managers, some tech level practitioners sometimes should remember that the training and goals of the managers are not the same as yours because job expectations are different. That being the case the manager or engineer may not be aware of all the issues surrounding your job. A good team would communicate and recognize the strengths and weaknesses if it's parts. No one can know everything, expecting your college boy to come straight into the job that way is as ridiculous as it would be to expect the 18 year old worker to know everything about his new job.

 

[CHCRandy]

You guys ever thought about how many of the worlds wealthiest men are college drop outs or never attended. Steve Ballmer, Steve Jobs, Bill Gates, Ted Turner, Mark Zuckerberg, Michael Dell, Ralph Lauren, Larry Ellison, Sheldon Adelson........and this list continues. I have always thought that the really brilliant people don't have time to work and if you don't plan to work, why get educated.

With that said......I still want my kids to have college degrees, if nothing else it shows they will commit themselves to something and show future employers that they are "teachable".

 

[ghuns]

Anyhoo, he had special "love" for the "college engineers"....who, if they were truly smart, started listening to the "old guys" sooner rather than later and if not, went into management.

I run into many 20 something engineers. The problem is there aren't enough "old guys" to go around and too few young guys willing to listen. There is also a general unwillingness among young engineers to deviate in the least from previous "standard" practices. Just cause something has become standard don't make it good or right. But many are so terminally risk averse that they work in a constant CYA mode.

 

[femurphy77]

Back when I was designing tools I always tried to make them idiot proof,but there were always idiots out there smarter than me.

It's not that there are idiots out there smarter than you, it's that there is always someone out there working to improve the idiot. We see that all the time here where I work also.

 

[jsharmon7]

Sure, skills can be learned on the job and college educated liberals everywhere prove that education can be worthless, but college is about expanding your capacity for thought and knowledge. Like any other opportunity, it's what you make of it. So go on with your superiority complex which has unconscious roots in jealousy. I don't regret the time or money I spent there, because my life is richer for having gone. If you never had it, you can't miss it.

I certainly don't need a degree to do my job, and I don't pretend it makes me better or more qualified. The fact is we live in a society where education is valued. If I decide I want to move up the ranks it will likely help my chances. Or if I decide to ever switch careers I have a lot more options with a college degree rather than being pigeon-holed into a specific type of work because that's all I know how to do. I decided to get my Master's degree so I can instruct at local colleges down the road. Or maybe find a kush job in the corporate world. I'm glad so many here found high paying jobs without college but it doesn't mean those who did go have wasted their time or money. Unfortunately some get a college degree and think it makes them better than someone without one, and that simply isn't true. After watching CM install my A/C last summer I can tell you he is much smarter than me. I would have been sitting on the sidewalk cursing for half the day had I attempted it!

 

[Redtbird]

Several years ago I was talking to my best friend, an RN, about medical people. She told me something I've never forgotten.

"Just remember. 50% of all doctors graduated in the bottom half of their class."

As time went on, I realized this also applied to lawyers, engineers, dentists, nurses, and any profession where a college degree is required.

"50% of all _______________ graduated in the bottom half of their class."

 

[MrSmitty]

I just started at a place where all the office staff (bosses) wear bright safety vests. If anyone ever went postal, they have ready made target indentifiers......
.

 

[jamil]

Smarter? Who knows, but I'm pretty sure I'm a better lawyers than all those lawyers who never went to college.

Wow. How many lawyers does it take to be you? Apparently more than one. You must be REALLY good.

I have more degrees than the proverbial thermometer, and an extremely low threshold for BS. If you tell me something in a workplace and I don't have a higher authority basis to disbelieve it, I have no choice but to believe it. Tell me I need to apply some blinker fluid, I'll ask where to find that. Tell me I need to install an exhaust bearing on a machine, I'll ask what bin is it in in the parts room, also where the parts room is. I simply have no energy or imagination to try to disambiguate genuine good advice from earnest bull****. If that makes me unsuitable for your workplace, tell me before I apply, not after I've accepted an offer of employment.

So you'd have gone down to the basement to look in row 4 bin 13 to get a thermocouple pressure adapter. I've sent many noobs to the basement of a one floor building. It's what we do to make noobs not blindly trust just everything they're told.

 

[HoughMade]

Wow. How many lawyers does it take to be you? Apparently more than one. You must be REALLY good....

Find me an Indiana lawyer who never went to college and we'll see how he or she compares. You did see that part of my statement, right?

 

[mbills2223]

careful, it's probably pretty steep!

I laughed at this...but I'm not sure why...

 

[femurphy77]

Find me an Indiana lawyer who never went to college and we'll see how he or she compares. You did see that part of my statement, right?

(In your best Howard Cosell voice) I Think that went right over his head!