College education doesn't always mean you're smarter

[D-Ric902]

College?
my late mother was one of the most successful business women in the state.

6th grade was as far as she got, then started working the farm.

 

[Caleb]

I witnessed a noob welder wear a flannel shirt to work...needless to say, his shirt didn't make it to first break.

 

[yote hunter]

There is a big difference between book smart and street smart and I will pick street smart every time..... Book smart might make you money but street smarts will save your life. Trust me !!!!

 

[Libertarian01]

To HoughMade,

I will not be one to argue that lawyers should or should not go to college. My only argument is that a college degree is, as I believe I demonstrated, not a reasonable requirement to the practice of law. What I believe is necessary to the practice of law is the ability of one seeking gainful employment there to prove their knowledge and understanding of the legal process and foundations of our legal system. A degree is simply not required for this.

Is a degree useful? Absolutely! Does a degree provide a benchmark for measuring someones acumen for understanding most of the aspects of the legal system? Yes 100%. BUT, is it necessary to successfully maneuver in the terrain of courts and the legal system? Not necessarily, in my opinion.

A good friend of mine got his masters degree in accounting. Ask him what he learned and he will tell you nothing! He knew as much before getting the degree by owning his own accounting office with his bachelors as he now does with his masters. Ask him why he got it and he will tell you it does generate more business from some clients who think it is necessary for their accountant to have a masters degree, the very degree he finds contributed nothing to his working knowledge. He simply acknowledges that with the MA he makes more money than without it due to the perception of some clients.

On an off tangent I will comment that a place I believe we are failing miserably is in apprenticeship programs being respected and honored in America. Our culture values a college degree but looks down on job skills without which we would come to a grinding halt! We need a better respect for electricians, carpenters, mechanics, plumbers, HVAC and all manually skilled jobs. Regrettably I don't see our culture showing the same deferential respect for the trades as it does for the degrees. I remember listening to an interview with a German businessman who wanted to build an auto plant in America but he was reluctant to do so because he had no guarantee of a trained workforce that be able to move into skilled, non college degree jobs to keep the plant running. America is either "college" or "menial" without a respected third choice. It seems that in Germany there is a great deal of respect for the trade unions and their members who make things work. Here in America our culture has lowered its respect toward those skills which are essential to maintaining our infrastructure. Only within the unions is there a significant respect for specialized trades and their status has fallen significantly over the last many decades.

I will go back to my main point that too many companies fail to logically analyze a job description and leave emotion out of it. They insert a "college degree" requirement where they should be looking for a skills requirement. If that job does indeed require some formalized college training - fine! All too often laziness or hubris or ego shoves in a college requirement where it just ain't so.

Regards,

Doug

 

[hornadylnl]

To HoughMade,

I will not be one to argue that lawyers should or should not go to college. My only argument is that a college degree is, as I believe I demonstrated, not a reasonable requirement to the practice of law. What I believe is necessary to the practice of law is the ability of one seeking gainful employment there to prove their knowledge and understanding of the legal process and foundations of our legal system. A degree is simply not required for this.

Is a degree useful? Absolutely! Does a degree provide a benchmark for measuring someones acumen for understanding most of the aspects of the legal system? Yes 100%. BUT, is it necessary to successfully maneuver in the terrain of courts and the legal system? Not necessarily, in my opinion.

A good friend of mine got his masters degree in accounting. Ask him what he learned and he will tell you nothing! He knew as much before getting the degree by owning his own accounting office with his bachelors as he now does with his masters. Ask him why he got it and he will tell you it does generate more business from some clients who think it is necessary for their accountant to have a masters degree, the very degree he finds contributed nothing to his working knowledge. He simply acknowledges that with the MA he makes more money than without it due to the perception of some clients.

On an off tangent I will comment that a place I believe we are failing miserably is in apprenticeship programs being respected and honored in America. Our culture values a college degree but looks down on job skills without which we would come to a grinding halt! We need a better respect for electricians, carpenters, mechanics, plumbers, HVAC and all manually skilled jobs. Regrettably I don't see our culture showing the same deferential respect for the trades as it does for the degrees. I remember listening to an interview with a German businessman who wanted to build an auto plant in America but he was reluctant to do so because he had no guarantee of a trained workforce that be able to move into skilled, non college degree jobs to keep the plant running. America is either "college" or "menial" without a respected third choice. It seems that in Germany there is a great deal of respect for the trade unions and their members who make things work. Here in America our culture has lowered its respect toward those skills which are essential to maintaining our infrastructure. Only within the unions is there a significant respect for specialized trades and their status has fallen significantly over the last many decades.

I will go back to my main point that too many companies fail to logically analyze a job description and leave emotion out of it. They insert a "college degree" requirement where they should be looking for a skills requirement. If that job does indeed require some formalized college training - fine! All too often laziness or hubris or ego shoves in a college requirement where it just ain't so.

Regards,

Doug

As an electrician in a factory, I could gross over $110,000 a year by working 50 hours a week on my current shift. My base is over $75,000.

 

[Shadow]

To HoughMade,

I will not be one to argue that lawyers should or should not go to college. My only argument is that a college degree is, as I believe I demonstrated, not a reasonable requirement to the practice of law. What I believe is necessary to the practice of law is the ability of one seeking gainful employment there to prove their knowledge and understanding of the legal process and foundations of our legal system. A degree is simply not required for this.

Is a degree useful? Absolutely! Does a degree provide a benchmark for measuring someones acumen for understanding most of the aspects of the legal system? Yes 100%. BUT, is it necessary to successfully maneuver in the terrain of courts and the legal system? Not necessarily, in my opinion.

A good friend of mine got his masters degree in accounting. Ask him what he learned and he will tell you nothing! He knew as much before getting the degree by owning his own accounting office with his bachelors as he now does with his masters. Ask him why he got it and he will tell you it does generate more business from some clients who think it is necessary for their accountant to have a masters degree, the very degree he finds contributed nothing to his working knowledge. He simply acknowledges that with the MA he makes more money than without it due to the perception of some clients.

On an off tangent I will comment that a place I believe we are failing miserably is in apprenticeship programs being respected and honored in America. Our culture values a college degree but looks down on job skills without which we would come to a grinding halt! We need a better respect for electricians, carpenters, mechanics, plumbers, HVAC and all manually skilled jobs. Regrettably I don't see our culture showing the same deferential respect for the trades as it does for the degrees. I remember listening to an interview with a German businessman who wanted to build an auto plant in America but he was reluctant to do so because he had no guarantee of a trained workforce that be able to move into skilled, non college degree jobs to keep the plant running. America is either "college" or "menial" without a respected third choice. It seems that in Germany there is a great deal of respect for the trade unions and their members who make things work. Here in America our culture has lowered its respect toward those skills which are essential to maintaining our infrastructure. Only within the unions is there a significant respect for specialized trades and their status has fallen significantly over the last many decades.

I will go back to my main point that too many companies fail to logically analyze a job description and leave emotion out of it. They insert a "college degree" requirement where they should be looking for a skills requirement. If that job does indeed require some formalized college training - fine! All too often laziness or hubris or ego shoves in a college requirement where it just ain't so.

Regards,

Doug

Some body please rep this person ( im all out ) This is very well the truth - with out the trades , we have no work force . If only corporation's could understand this .

 

[HoughMade]

I would be fine with the return of the apprenticeship model in legal education, but it is not going to happen for a variety of reasons (some, market based). Anyone who wants to become a lawyer and has the intelligence to do it, can. Does the system need to be what it is? No, but it isn't the barrier to entry some imagine it to be.

 

[Caleb]

As Dave Ramsey would say, a degree is just a piece of paper, the important thing is what you learned while getting that piece of paper.

 

[jamil]

I would be fine with the return of the apprenticeship model in legal education, but it is not going to happen for a variety of reasons (some, market based). Anyone who wants to become a lawyer and has the intelligence to do it, can. Does the system need to be what it is? No, but it isn't the barrier to entry some imagine it to be.

My son wants to be a lawyer. I told him I'd disown him if I see his face plastered on TARC busses with some cheezy slogan like "the heavy hitter".

 

[Libertarian01]

I would be fine with the return of the apprenticeship model in legal education, but it is not going to happen for a variety of reasons (some, market based). Anyone who wants to become a lawyer and has the intelligence to do it, can. Does the system need to be what it is? No, but it isn't the barrier to entry some imagine it to be.

To HoughMade,

Just so I am being clear: I am not pushing for "lawyer reform." I only intended to use this profession as an example of a longstanding profession that has experienced a change in perception regarding what is required for a person to honorably practice law. With the ease of finding examples of well known successful lawyers in the past I find this an indication of what is NOT necessarily needed: college! I mean nothing beyond that. We could as easily be talking about accountants or some other field currently perceived as "college required" where historical data conflicts.

I do believe that for most people college is the way to go for a variety of professions, including the law. A college provides an environment that is designed (as best it can) to maximize the ability of a person (aka student) to access and acquire information that will be helpful to the growth of a profession. But, as the OP suggested, our current cultural reliance on such institutions is overdependent in my opinion.

I mentioned our lack of respect for trade skills only as a tangential problem with our society. What we "need" isn't what we "respect."

HornadyInI is a prime example of someone who has a well paid job with great skill requirements, yet I do not believe that outside of his industry there is significant respect for this field. I could be wrong, but I don't think many in our culture will talk to their children about going into trades, outside of unions. Most will push for college of some kind as that is given respect, more than any apprenticeship. Again, I am painting with an awful broad brush here.

Having some classroom experience with HR professionals and other students with a wide variety of experiences I have come to the conclusion that the OP intent is generally correct.

For me, I have found most of my college classes to be useful to some degree or another. My Logic class was tremendously helpful! It helped me focus on premises, facts, and logical fallacies. I found I despise truth tables. I know there is much more to learn. My accounting 101 class was a huge eye opener for me. Accountants do things far more than preparing tax returns, yet until I took my class that is how I perceived most accountants. I have learned to accept my ignorance on many issues.

Regards,

Doug

 

[ViperJock]

Everyone I know without a college education is so smart that I don't feel worthy around them.

 

[mom45]

Some body please rep this person ( im all out ) This is very well the truth - with out the trades , we have no work force . If only corporation's could understand this .

I got him for you Shadow.

College degree sometimes means more money...not always. More money does not always mean a better life.

My husband worked in the trades and did just fine. He was able to retire at 55 while he was healthy enough to enjoy his retirement. We live comfortably. We don't drive fancy new vehicles or take expensive vacations. We are home bodies and enjoy being home and doing things here at our property. He has the skills to fix pretty much anything that breaks around here and that saves us a ton of $$$, which allows us to spend that money on things we want. He would have never survived if someone told him he had to sit at a desk inside an office all day long. He hates being inside.

College degrees are needed for some jobs, but as others have said...we need people at all skill levels for society to function. I think the schools telling all kids they NEED to go to college is wrong. I have one child who is in college and doing great. The other would have never made it through the first year due to her anxiety with taking tests, ect. She is just not a person who would have benefited from going to college. She struggled her way through high school and graduated. I doubt that she will ever have a high paying job. It is what it is. She is a hard worker and dependable, and that is something to be proud of in today's market where so many of the applicants can't even pass a drug test and refuse to show up for work.

 

[HoughMade]

My son wants to be a lawyer. I told him I'd disown him if I see his face plastered on TARC busses with some cheezy slogan like "the heavy hitter".

As would I. Plaintiff's personal injury with your face everywhere is where the money is, but it's not for me.

 

[mom45]

As would I. Plaintiff's personal injury with your face everywhere is where the money is, but it's not for me.

I don't think I could be a personal injury attorney. I get sick of everyone thinking that just because they got hurt (even when it was their own fault) that someone else should pay for it. Life happens. Sometimes it sucks. There are legitimate cases of people getting hit by drunks and such, but there are so many scammers I feel like I would want to punch half of the clients in the face after hearing their stories and what they want out of it.

 

[esrice]

I don't have a problem with it unless they come up to me while I'm doing my job and try to explain what I'm doing wrong when it's obvious they have no clue what they're talking about.

Oh the irony. It burns.

Reported.

 

[dm1986]

I value experience over education every time