Colin Kaepernick protests the Anthem

[1DOWN4UP]

And the name of this company, and it's location? Is there some reason why people are protecting these businesses?

What did the company do wrong?It was only following the law.....ps,Carborundum,New Carlisle Indiana.

 

[Kutnupe14]

What did the company do wrong?It was only following the law.....ps,Carborundum,New Carlisle Indiana.

How big is this business? Is it even still open?

 

[Kutnupe14]

"War on drugs" is a slogan not an example. People of all colors are in jail for drug crimes. Do you have an actual specific example?

You asked for an example, and now you're moving the goalposts? And what does "people of all colors are in jail for drug crimes mean?" Surely, you not saying that for something to have an institutional effect, it must only effect those of a particular group. That's like saying "well, I took a white person to jail once on some bogus charges, so that means you can't call it racism when I tell you I locked up 100 Latino guys for the same reason."

 

[Liberty1916]

Which property rights and freedom of associations have been "stripped" to "right past wrongs?" And if we're saying "black privilege" exists, then by default, are we also saying "white privilege" exists?
And your bet about my former PD, at least at the time of their first minority hiring, until my retirement, probably isn't a bet you should take.

Can I sell or refuse to sell my house to whomever I choose for any stated reason? We both know the answer is no, so that's just one example of property rights being limited.

About the bet - You're saying Carmel PD does not have any "diversity" programs/outreach and is not committed to "diverse" hiring?

About "white privilege" - I gave you some actual examples of black privilege. Give me some actual examples of "white privilege" and I'll answer you.

 

[Liberty1916]

You asked for an example, and now you're moving the goalposts? And what does "people of all colors are in jail for drug crimes mean?" Surely, you not saying that for something to have an institutional effect, it must only effect those of a particular group. That's like saying "well, I took a white person to jail once on some bogus charges, so that means you can't call it racism when I tell you I locked up 100 Latino guys for the same reason."

Ok, so to be clear, you're saying that any law that has a disparate impact on a particular group is "racist"?

 

[Kutnupe14]

Can I sell or refuse to sell my house to whomever I choose for any stated reason? We both know the answer is no, so that's just one example of property rights being limited.

About the bet - You're saying Carmel PD does not have any "diversity" programs/outreach and is not committed to "diverse" hiring?

About "white privilege" - I gave you some actual examples of black privilege. Give me some actual examples of "white privilege" and I'll answer you.

Nope, there's no program... nor any directive to "try and hire" minorities.
And you don't get to turn a question around on me. I asked first, so if you please, answer if you believe if "white privilege" exists.

 

[femurphy77]

So at this point, the only significant results I see from all of this are:

1. New resentments that either didn't exist before or are worse now;
2. Lagging revenue streams for the NFL and related concerns; and
3. A previously unknown to me (and probably a lot of others) football player with a failing career is now famous.

He'll get to put his name a on a book that his agent hires someone to write for him and he'll get to make a lot money at speaking engagements for years to come.

Not seeing how anyone else benefits from all of this. The alleged cause? Not seeing it, or how this helps. Any problems that do exist among people will be exacerbated by this if anything.

What a douche bag.

 

[Kutnupe14]

Ok, so to be clear, you're saying that any law that has a disparate impact on a particular group is "racist"?

No, I'm saying that the effects of the war on drugs, is institutional racism. I'm not giving you an open road to run with, given the wide latitude your post indicates.

 

[1DOWN4UP]

Chicago is running adds for minority openings in the CPD as we speak.http://abc7chicago.com/news/cpd-is-hiring-aims-to-increase-diversity-among-ranks/1063634/

 

[JettaKnight]

I'm not sure how far you'll get in trying to get anyone to admit to "white privilege". While I believe the concept is true, the name is dumb and confrontational.


I still don't have a good alternative.

 

[femurphy77]

Yes, it DOES exist, but it is definately a TWO WAY STREET!!! I interviewed for a job in Indy, and was told by the company's owner that he ONLY hired blacks. He said "why should I even consider hiring you?". Before he even looked at my qualifications (which he didn't even bother to do) I was judged solely by my skin color.

I have been told on MULTIPLE occasions that racism is only white on black, blacks cannot be racist but can only be the victims of racism.

Those people that told me that were themselves black. With that kind of sentiment I doubt seriously if racism, real or perceived will ever truly die.

 

[Kutnupe14]

I'm not sure how far you'll get in trying to get anyone to admit to "white privilege". While I believe the concept is true, the name is dumb and confrontational.

I still don't have a good alternative.

True, but if someone says there is "black Privilege," it's only fair to ask if they think there is "white privilege."

 

[Kutnupe14]

I have told on MULTIPLE occasions that racism is only white on black, blacks cannot be racist but can only be the victims of racism.

Those people that told me that were themselves black. With that kind of sentiment I doubt seriously if racism, real or perceived will ever truly die.

That is patently false.

 

[femurphy77]

That is patently false.

And having read your posts long enough I know that you believe this as I do, I'm just saying that attitudes need to change universally. I wish I knew how, I really do. Coming from a background that encouraged color blindness I have a hard time digesting hatred based on skin tone. I've known *******s and good people of many colors, nationalities, etc.

I guess my problem is that I've tended to shy away from people that fit the moniker "racist" so I don't truly understand their thinking. Naïve maybe, protectionist, I don't know but it's all I got.

 

[printcraft]

Somebody on INGO seems to have gotten a social justice girlfriend, or boyfriend, recently.

 

[Liberty1916]

Nope, there's no program... nor any directive to "try and hire" minorities.
And you don't get to turn a question around on me. I asked first, so if you please, answer if you believe if "white privilege" exists.

I'll take your word on the PD programs. They're common across the country so it wasn't a stretch to assume your department does it. My company has "A commitment to hiring a diverse workforce".

About "white privilege". I have no idea what you mean. You have to define it, otherwise I'm guessing. I gave you specific examples of black privilege in hiring and college admission preferences. If you're asking does the same thing exist for whites, then no, I don't believe "white privilege" exists. If you have a different example, then share it.

 

[jamil]

I disagree. Impgn America. America is a collective. Speaking generally, a negative issue that is of concern to some of us, should be a concern to to all. As for Kaepernick original protest and how he framed it, I think that was ill-advised. The statement you cited, he said after he sat on the bench during the anthem.... and after it was explained to him how it would be viewed by a military member, he modified his protest to a kneel, to show that he was not trying to dishonor those who served, but rather his is illustrating his dissatisfaction with the way America appears to be to him, and many other people, who don't have the stage that he has.
Kap's protests are, believe it or not, are better received than those of the civil rights movement of the 60s.

First, addressing the "collective" part, do you really think a negative issue that is of concern to some of us, should be a concern to all? That's actually nonsense. We're not a hive mind. We're not a true collective. It's just an aggregate term to refer to a group of individuals who have some common social connection. America is a collection of people who are members of a nation, with some shared common interests. The only concern negative things are is to the extent it is of interest to everyone. There's not a collective consciousness, and therefore there's not a collective conscience.

I think the real issue, that many black people are still discriminated against by many white people, and of particular consequence, by many people in positions of power, should indeed be of a common interest. But it isn't, because there are different perceptions. And especially in what to do about it. People will widely disagree on solutions. And that's fair. And that brings us to Kaepernick's statements and protests.

I think his biases (especially his bootie interests) bring him to a point where he believes the problem is worse than it is. Same can be said of the opposing side. Their biases, depending on which white bubble they're in, will think the problem is either more or less than actually it is. It's obvious to me that the answer isn't a protest which makes a collective accusation.

Kaepernicks explanations are completely ineffective when he's still protesting the same way. I think the middle finger is sufficiently equal to make the point that if you middle-finger your audience, and then say, "no, when I middle finger America, I really mean something else", and then you middle finger them again, it kinda feels like the same middle finger. How about not using the middle finger to protest. How about doing something else?

Now, about how the protests are received by people. That's not an indicator of the justness of the cause. It's not an indicator of the propriety of the social change needed. It's not an indicator of the efficacy of the method. It's not even an indicator of the accuracy of the complaint. Treat people like you want to be treated. Isn't that really the goal? Are we THERE yet? No. Certainly not on either side. But that is truly an individual battle. So how do you protest against that? Maybe that takes more thought than just to say you think the country oppresses black people.

I think this is an individual issue, and not really something a protest will solve. It may get solved anyway, but not without much unnecessary division. You can't argue that this protest hasn't caused the opposite effect. It's divided people more than united them. And you really can't argue, "but 1964!" That was different. The resolution for that was to make systemic/institutional racism illegal. You can't make systemic/institutional racism extra-super-duper illegal. It's already illegal. If you find some remaining real examples of actual systemic/institutional racism, sue. Take them to court. Make your case. Stamp it out.

 

[jamil]

I once applied for a high paying job,in which my BIL was Ass.Plant Man.I spent more than 5 years waiting for my window.The starting position was a very hard job.It was designed to make or break you.For more than 5 years,the company could not permanently fill the minority position to reach it's quota..they would hire someone,but they would shortly afterwards quit.I was qualified and was next in line,but then the 5th year,I got a interview.A woman quit.I again was told they had to hire another minority.

I can relate. My BIL is sometimes an ass too.

 

[Liberty1916]

No, I'm saying that the effects of the war on drugs, is institutional racism. I'm not giving you an open road to run with, given the wide latitude your post indicates.

Maybe more minorities do drugs. Who knows? Can you site a law that targets minorities? Or are you trying to say that racist cops arrest more minorities, then racists prosecutors try more minorities, and racists judges sentence more minorities? You're not being clear, because you're running on an open road instead of being specific.

 

[jamil]

"War on drugs" is a slogan not an example. People of all colors are in jail for drug crimes. Do you have an actual specific example?

How about Planned Parenthood and the specific attention paid to targeting minority communities?