My J-frame Journey

[45sRfun]

Hit the range today and tried out some .357 ammo in the M340PD.

4 rounds Remington Golden Saber Full Size Handgun 125 grain BJHP were not too bad.

Then I shot 5 rounds of Cavalry (now out of business) 158 Grain JHP Short Barrel Revolver rounds rated at 1050 FPS and they were not bad either.

I then loaded 5 rounds of Federal American Eagle 158 grain JSP and fired one shot. Whew! That was it. I did not fire the other 4 rounds of that stuff and it hurt my knuckle, no blood, but there is lingering pain.

I have some targets and will get them photographed and posted later.

Two observations on the M340PD:

1. The red insert on the front sight was very difficult to see. I was not hitting center of target, but that may be partly due to the sights. I ran a couple targets with the 442 for comparison.

2. Every time (except maybe not the 125 grain) I shot the .357s they would not eject properly, but two cases would hang up, not under the ejector star but against it as if the cases were expanded. Maybe some oil will help. Will be more trips to the range.

 

[EODFXSTI]

Hit the range today and tried out some .357 ammo in the M340PD.

4 rounds Remington Golden Saber Full Size Handgun 125 grain BJHP were not too bad.

Then I shot 5 rounds of Cavalry (now out of business) 158 Grain JHP Short Barrel Revolver rounds rated at 1050 FPS and they were not bad either.

I then loaded 5 rounds of Federal American Eagle 158 grain JSP and fired one shot. Whew! That was it. I did not fire the other 4 rounds of that stuff and it hurt my knuckle, no blood, but there is lingering pain.

I have some targets and will get them photographed and posted later.

Two observations on the M340PD:

1. The red insert on the front sight was very difficult to see. I was not hitting center of target, but that may be partly due to the sights. I ran a couple targets with the 442 for comparison.

2. Every time (except maybe not the 125 grain) I shot the .357s they would not eject properly, but two cases would hang up, not under the ejector star but against it as if the cases were expanded. Maybe some oil will help. Will be more trips to the range.

Glad you tried them. Would you say that the .357 will be your carry round? Also, silly question, do rounds eject normal without firing them? Once ejected, can you put the expended rounds back in and eject them? Any chance there is any crud built up under the ejector or on it?

 

[tscherry70]

I then loaded 5 rounds of Federal American Eagle 158 grain JSP and fired one shot. Whew! That was it. I did not fire the other 4 rounds of that stuff and it hurt my knuckle, no blood, but there is lingering pain.

I remember shooting a Ruger LCR .357 for the first time when they first came out with full power magnums. I couldn't get past 25 rounds. Just knowing it's going to hurt makes you flinch while pulling the trigger. I had to switch to .38's after that.

 

[DoggyDaddy]

I remember shooting a Ruger LCR .357 for the first time when they first came out with full power magnums. I couldn't get past 25 rounds. Just knowing it's going to hurt makes you flinch while pulling the trigger. I had to switch to .38's after that.

Not a J-frame, but K-frame size, I have a Manurhin MR73.



"The factory proof-fires each cylinder chamber with .357 Magnum ammunition which generates 30% more pressure than the C.I.P. maximum allowable pressure for the Magnum cartridge. The factory guarantees that the cylinder will not burst or show any bulging or deformation with .357 Magnum ammunition developing double the C.I.P. 300.00 MPa (43,511 psi) Pmax piezo pressure, meaning the cylinder can withstand 600.00 MPa (87,023 psi), or 43.5 tons per square inch)."

Manurhin MR 73 - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

In a classic case of "Just because you can, doesn't mean you should", I loaded up some "hot" 357 rounds for it, near the top of the recommended pressures according to Hodgdon data. Ouch. Just... ouch.

 

[45sRfun]

Actually have another on hold at the other gun shop, a H&R topbreak .22 LR that some bozo sawed off the barrel to about 2-3 inches, so no sight, saw marks across the muzzle, but for $60 I figure it would be worth monkeying with.

For the record it is not an H&R but an Iver Johnson. For a $60 gun they gave me a pass for a month of free range time. That would pay for the gun.

 

[45sRfun]

Glad you tried them. Would you say that the .357 will be your carry round? Also, silly question, do rounds eject normal without firing them? Once ejected, can you put the expended rounds back in and eject them? Any chance there is any crud built up under the ejector or on it?

I would like to carry .357 but need more practice and a cartridge that is lower recoil. I like to do a lot of one-handed practice. If I cannot shoot the cartridge well with one hand (left or right) it is probably not a good carry option, so that may disqualify most .357s.

I only ejected unfired .38s but will have to try that later with some unfired .357s. They were jammed with the rim a little above the star. Could not push the star back in or pull the rounds out. I have a dowell in my range bag and used it to push the cases out. Need to inspect the cases, measure them. Yeah, I should clean the ejector well too.

 

[45sRfun]

So, I did not make targets for the .357s as my main goal was to see how they felt, kind of get used to them. Maybe next week. I did save some targets for the .38 specials. I shot two with the 442 first then a few with the 340 PD. Everything at 5 yards. All but the last one is Norma FMJ range ammo in .38 Special 158 grain and 968 fps rated.

442 right hand (note one shot is at the top edge (half circled):


442 left hand:

340PD right hand:


340PD right hand (apparently one round missed the target paper and one is in the upper left corner):


340PD two hands:


Then I shot some Choice Ammunition .38 Special 105 grain TCFP coated lead cowboy loads rated at 650 fps. These have the hard primers and one failed to fire. This target has 9 shots of two cylinders with one on the right edge. These, at 650 fps, were a joy to shoot. Practically no recoil. Right handed shots.

 

[Bassat]

For the sake of complete information, you are not getting 968 fps with a 158gr bullet out of a 1-7/8" or 2-1/8" barrel. Norma tests their ammo in 6" barrels.
Per their website: https://www.norma-ammunition.com/en...a-38-special-jhp-safeguard-158-gr---610740050

 

[45sRfun]

I took the 10 .357 cases that I shot yesterday and pushed them into the chambers. Most went in easy, a couple were snug, but one or two went in hard and needed the dowel to extract them. Examining the worst one, it seems to be swelled about 2-3 mm from the rim. Measuring with my cheap caliper (like a slide rule and not digital nor an added gauge, just hash marks on the slide) I got 10mm at the swelled part and 9.7 mm for the unswelled part. Those translate to ~0.39" for the swelled part and ~0.38" for the normal part.

Why didn't I read the inch scale off the caliper? Because my brain just works a lot easier with the decimals of metric for this. If the inch scale were in 100ths of an inch it would be a lot easier.

 

[EODFXSTI]

I took the 10 .357 cases that I shot yesterday and pushed them into the chambers. Most went in easy, a couple were snug, but one or two went in hard and needed the dowel to extract them. Examining the worst one, it seems to be swelled about 2-3 mm from the rim. Measuring with my cheap caliper (like a slide rule and not digital nor an added gauge, just hash marks on the slide) I got 10mm at the swelled part and 9.7 mm for the unswelled part. Those translate to ~0.39" for the swelled part and ~0.38" for the normal part.

Why didn't I read the inch scale off the caliper? Because my brain just works a lot easier with the decimals of metric for this. If the inch scale were in 100ths of an inch it would be a lot easier.

I wonder if the expanded ones came from the same cylinders. You would have to mark each round and which cylinder they are in to see if it consistent. I am not leading to any particular remedy, just how I would chase it down. If it is a consistent problem, S&W may warranty it for you.

And I don't judge as I look at a tape measure and sometime say 2 foot 3 inches and four lines. Ha!

 

[45sRfun]

I wonder if the expanded ones came from the same cylinders. You would have to mark each round and which cylinder they are in to see if it consistent. I am not leading to any particular remedy, just how I would chase it down. If it is a consistent problem, S&W may warranty it for you.

And I don't judge as I look at a tape measure and sometime say 2 foot 3 inches and four lines. Ha!

Yep, that is what needs to be checked next range session. I have two cylinders of the 125 grain .357 and suspect they will not hang up. I have 5 cylinders of the 158 grain Cavalry Ammuniton that I will also run. But I am not messing with the Federal American Eagle anymore in that gun!

Just checked with the expanded case. It shoves into four chambers fine (up to the bulge) but is tight in one chamber. I tried the same case in my 442 and it shoves into all five cylinders fine (up to the bulge of course). So if anything, it seems the 340PD is a bit under bored in one chamber.

 

[G19G26]

After having a few snubnose one 357mag and one 38 special. I think I'll be going to 3" barrels for a carry revolver. That extra inch gives better sight radius, and more velocity.
I'll be going with a 357mag because you can shoot both.
As a reloader I can also make light magnums that have a velocity between both as well. More than 38 Special +p and under 357mag pressure.
I'm just not there yet to purchase another one at this stage in life.
Now all that said is there a J Frame that has a 3" barrel still being made?

I carry a model 60-15 Pro Series with 3". Couldn't ask for a better J frame .357 shooter. Super trigger, super accurate. Recoil is so soft, even with fairly stout handloads. It'll be the last J frame to ever go.

 

[92FSTech]

I added another J-Frame to the collection this week. A local-ish shop that specializes in police trades had two used ones in the case for a reasonable price, I've had a titanium cylinder sitting in a box for over a year waiting for a host, and this thread pushed me over the edge.

The shop guy let me examine both of the ones they had before I bought. One was pristine and looked almost new, but had carryup issues and wouldn't lock up on 3 of the 5 chambers if I dragged my thumb against the cylinder as it rotated. The other one was pretty filthy, had a dab of orange paint on the front sight, but underneath was in really good shape. Lockup and carryup was solid, but it had just the faintest hitch at the end of the trigger pull on two chambers. I bought that one.



I got it home, detail stripped it and cleaned it up. There was a lot of crud inside the action...clearly I got a shooter's gun! I removed the lock flag because I don't trust the darn things, especially on the Airweights as I've had the flag pop up on my 329 before under recoil. On the exposed hammer guns you can just push it back down, but it's completely internal on the Centennials, so that would be a huge problem. Unfortunately on the J-Frames, taking the flag out leaves a little hole in the side of the frame (you can see it just above the grips in the photo below). I did leave the lock cylinder in place, as without the flag it does nothing, and it serves to plug the larger of the two holes. Stupid, pointless lock .



I gave the internals a light stoning and polish while I was in there, and also cleaned up the ratchet teeth to get rid of the hitch at the end of the trigger pull. I swapped in the titanium cylinder, which fit and timed up perfectly (I used the original ratchet from the gun), and I now have a nice little 12oz snagless .38 revolver for less than half the price of a 340PD. It won't handle magnums, but I have no desire to shoot those through an airweight anyway.

I got it to the range today and was pretty happy with it. Recoil was not painful at all with my 150gr full wadcutter target load which chronographed right around 700fps out of this gun. They did hit a little high, so I'm going to try a few other loads in coming days to see if I can figure out what it's happiest with. It's shaping up to be a nice little pocket gun.

7 yards holding right at the bottom of the ring:


15 yards with a 6 o'clock hold:

 

[EODFXSTI]

Yep, that is what needs to be checked next range session. I have two cylinders of the 125 grain .357 and suspect they will not hang up. I have 5 cylinders of the 158 grain Cavalry Ammuniton that I will also run. But I am not messing with the Federal American Eagle anymore in that gun!

Just checked with the expanded case. It shoves into four chambers fine (up to the bulge) but is tight in one chamber. I tried the same case in my 442 and it shoves into all five cylinders fine (up to the bulge of course). So if anything, it seems the 340PD is a bit under bored in one chamber.

Were all of the rounds that got hung up that Cavalry ammo or was one the Federal as well? I believe you said the Remington rounds ejected fine. I do not know anything about Cavalry but they may be the culprit.

 

[45sRfun]

Were all of the rounds that got hung up that Cavalry ammo or was one the Federal as well? I believe you said the Remington rounds ejected fine. I do not know anything about Cavalry but they may be the culprit.

I remember now that I had to use the dowel for extraction of a couple rounds twice and since I fired two cylinders* it is clear that the Golden Sabers also hung up. Here are example fired .357 cases for each (left to right), Golden Saber, Cavalry (recycled brass), and Federal AE.

* Note I fired 4 rounds of Golden Saber. Then I fired 5 rounds of Cavalry. Then I loaded 5 American Eagles but only fired one because it was vicious recoil. Total fired: 10 rounds.

 

[EODFXSTI]

Can't remember if the 125 Grain Golden Sabers hung up. Will try them again along with Cavalry hopefully next week. Seems the case expansion increased with power, which makes sense. The Cavalry and Federal are both 158 grain but the Cavalry were definitely lower recoil. Here are example fired .357 cases for each (left to right), Golden Saber, Cavalry (recycled brass), and Federal AE.
View attachment 384726

Maybe just the picture but it looks as if they are just bulging on one side. If that is true, there may be some carbon buildup in the cylinder. If this gun has primarily been loaded with .38, then it would make sense the carbon ring on the inside would sit a little lower due to a shorter cartridge length thus making them harder to extract. I would look into how to polish (not ream) the cylinders a bit to get them back into spec. It is possible the last owner may have been overzealous with a polish job too.

 

[45sRfun]

Maybe just the picture but it looks as if they are just bulging on one side. If that is true, there may be some carbon buildup in the cylinder. If this gun has primarily been loaded with .38, then it would make sense the carbon ring on the inside would sit a little lower due to a shorter cartridge length thus making them harder to extract. I would look into how to polish (not ream) the cylinders a bit to get them back into spec. It is possible the last owner may have been overzealous with a polish job too.

 

[EODFXSTI]

View attachment 384757

I am no smith nor do I play one on TV but I would clean/polish those cylinders out. I searched it myself and there are many different tools and methods. But remember, once you polish it off, you cannot polish it back on. I would also try a couple different brands of new quality ammo to see what works best once you get it squared away. Maybe a stop at a local gunsmith to have them give it a onceover would be in order. The few bucks spent would be worth the peace of mind.

 

[45sRfun]

I am no smith nor do I play one on TV but I would clean/polish those cylinders out. I searched it myself and there are many different tools and methods. But remember, once you polish it off, you cannot polish it back on. I would also try a couple different brands of new quality ammo to see what works best once you get it squared away. Maybe a stop at a local gunsmith to have them give it a onceover would be in order. The few bucks spent would be worth the peace of mind.

Thanks. Being a titanium alloy cylinder, there may be cautions on how we clean/polish it. Also, only one cylinder is tight, so probably start with just that one. I will see at the range next time how they come out. Instead of the extractor I will push each case out with the dowel and see if only one hole is resistant or more are. But pushing used cases back in suggests only one hole. I put a sharpie dot on the back of the cylinder so I can know what hole is what. Anyway, it shoots .38 Special fine and extracts them fine and that is likely my SD carry unless I find a mild .357 to carry.

 

[EODFXSTI]

Thanks. Being a titanium alloy cylinder, there may be cautions on how we clean/polish it. Also, only one cylinder is tight, so probably start with just that one. I will see at the range next time how they come out. Instead of the extractor I will push each case out with the dowel and see if only one hole is resistant or more are. But pushing used cases back in suggests only one hole. I put a sharpie dot on the back of the cylinder so I can know what hole is what. Anyway, it shoots .38 Special fine and extracts them fine and that is likely my SD carry unless I find a mild .357 to carry.

I think you are right to stay away from any abrasives. And good idea with the dowel to determine the culprit.

I am sure it will run .38+P alright but you bought a .357 and it should run those too! I am rooting for you to get it worked out.