Colin Kaepernick protests the Anthem

[jamil]

Bug, Jamil ... I get what you're saying.

I would agree that shouting racism should be a last resort and only when certain.


The gain on people's reaction amp is set way, way too high.



Agreed. Unfortunately, Trump won't answer the follow up question for the Tweet - we only have the original statement, so maybe both you and Kut is right, kind of a Schrodinger's Box sort of thing.

I suspect, and it's just speculation, that Trump won't say what it means because either way, he has to commit to a meaning, to something that could be wrong. It's like with the state elections Republicans lost their asses on. He berates Republicans either way. And then if they lose, he can say they lost because they didn't sufficiently kiss his ass. And if they win, it's because the losers finally got on board with "Trumpism". He can sit back and play both ends against the middle so he doesn't have to feel he's ever wrong. I think that's what kinda happened on repealing Obamacare. He just sat back, and if Republicans could get something to his desk, he could sign it, whatever it contained, good or bad, and claim victory. And if they lost, it's because they're not on board with "Trumpism". On taxes he seems to be committing to it more. We'll see how that goes.

 

[Expat]

We need quantum mechanics to figure this out....... we observed Trumps tweet and it has clearly changed to racist statement as a result.
Would the tweet not have had the same meaning had we not looked at it? Something to think about.

Hopefully you can get an official arbiter on racism to way in on this.

ETA: way --> weigh.... sorry.

 

[jamil]

We need quantum mechanics to figure this out....... we observed Trumps tweet and it has clearly changed to racist statement as a result.
Would the tweet not have had the same meaning had we not looked at it? Something to think about.

You have to admit. It's much more expedient to democrats to say it's racist. They'll say it's racist regardless. At this point, if you're Trump, how do you say it's not? Doesn't look good if you have to publicly declare that you're not a racist. This is one of those areas where Trump would have been way better off not saying it at all.

This is part of why Republicans got their asses trounced in VA. Trump is becoming to Republicans what Hillary was in the general election. A liability because of how he is negatively perceived. And I'll grant you that much of that perception is unearned. But Trump is responsible for the extent to which it is earned.

 

[jamil]

Hopefully you can get an official arbiter on racism to way in on this.

You called?

 

[BugI02]

Where I'm coming from is long established definitions, versus the way people speak actually speak to each other. You can't always rely on interpreting something by the way you would understand it if you said it. That's just been my experience having lived in 8 different states.

Sorry to be the bearer of bad news, jamil. The 'long established' definition of racism is like 3-phase AC, it still applies to the world but not nearly as much as you believe

Given the statement by Trump being factual and correctly quoted, to say people would never vote for another black president because Obama was such a disaster is prima facie racist by the modern definition. The assertion turns solely on an external genetic characteristic of any putative future candidate, not on their character or politics or potential agenda.

The only wiggle room is to go with the historic definition of racism, that it requires the belief that one race is superior to another in all instances. The reality is the modern definition of racism, while drastically overused, is just a particular case of the general. Rather than criticize things Obama actually did and was responsible for, it alludes to a secondary genetic characteristic as if that was of overwhelming importance in explaining why Obama was a disaster

 

[jamil]

Sorry to be the bearer of bad news, jamil. The 'long established' definition of racism is like 3-phase AC, it still applies to the world but not nearly as much as you believe

Given the statement by Trump being factual and correctly quoted, to say people would never vote for another black president because Obama was such a disaster is prima facie racist by the modern definition. The assertion turns solely on an external genetic characteristic of any putative future candidate, not on their character or politics or potential agenda.

The only wiggle room is to go with the historic definition of racism, that it requires the belief that one race is superior to another in all instances. The reality is the modern definition of racism, while drastically overused, is just a particular case of the general. Rather than criticize things Obama actually did and was responsible for, it alludes to a secondary genetic characteristic as if that was of overwhelming importance in explaining why Obama was a disaster

Well, you're not bearing news, per se. I understand how many people are defining it today. I understand that the meaning is transforming into something more broad. We wouldn't have words transformed into hyperbolic meanings if people stand up and say, no you're not going to hijack a word so you can club your political enemies with it.

"Racism" in the modern usage, means anything negative towards a minority that has anything to do with race. It is impossible for a black person to be a racist because they don't have the power to oppress another race. So. Prejudice and stereotyping is racist if the subject is a minority race. If it is against a majority race, then it's not racist.

People don't have to accept that definition. We can insist on the correct definition. Hatred of a race or belief in superiority/inferiority of a race IS racism. Prejudice and stereotyping, without either of the two, is not racism.

I think Prejudice and stereotyping didn't seem like they were seen as a strong enough evil on their own that people started swapping in racism when they really meant one of the other two.

Now. About the comment concerning Obama. I've said my peace about that. I don't see that as racist. And I will stay with the correct definition of racist. I think expanding the definition to include prejudice and stereotyping waters down the word. And it implies a more nefarious idea than there probably was.

 

[Vigilant]

If a person says something, and no one is around to be offended, is it still racist?

 

[BugI02]

Well, you're not bearing news, per se. I understand how many people are defining it today. I understand that the meaning is transforming into something more broad. We wouldn't have words transformed into hyperbolic meanings if people stand up and say, no you're not going to hijack a word so you can club your political enemies with it.

"Racism" in the modern usage, means anything negative towards a minority that has anything to do with race. It is impossible for a black person to be a racist because they don't have the power to oppress another race. So. Prejudice and stereotyping is racist if the subject is a minority race. If it is against a majority race, then it's not racist.

People don't have to accept that definition. We can insist on the correct definition. Hatred of a race or belief in superiority/inferiority of a race IS racism. Prejudice and stereotyping, without either of the two, is not racism.

I think Prejudice and stereotyping didn't seem like they were seen as a strong enough evil on their own that people started swapping in racism when they really meant one of the other two.

Now. About the comment concerning Obama. I've said my peace about that. I don't see that as racist. And I will stay with the correct definition of racist. I think expanding the definition to include prejudice and stereotyping waters down the word. And it implies a more nefarious idea than there probably was.

You are correct. The term racism, like the term patriotism, has been morphed to suit an agenda.

Mark Twain presciently warned us about the corruption of the one term, I have the feeling someone will have done the same for the other. I find I have some research to do

 

[1DOWN4UP]

Seahawks stand for anthem to honor veterans | KING5.com. Nothing to see here folks..........Keep the line a movin'.

 

[BugI02]

You are correct. The term racism, like the term patriotism, has been morphed to suit an agenda.

Mark Twain presciently warned us about the corruption of the one term, I have the feeling someone will have done the same for the other. I find I have some research to do

Interim report

At least 29 years ago. Still digging when I have the time

https://www.washingtonpost.com/arch...77f-9bc5-48bde9655af1/?utm_term=.2eb00c7057ce

THE LAST REFUGE CRIES OF RACISM
By Charles Krauthammer October 28, 1988

Its hilarious that it's Krauthammer, considering how his views have ... evolved

 

[printcraft]

I know this event was discussed a while back but I can't find it.....

Meanwhile...........

• An Air Force cadet candidate who claimed to be a victim of racist graffiti admitted to writing the message

[video]http://www.cnn.com/2017/11/08/us/air-force-academy-racist-message-trnd/index.html[/video]

I thought this kind of thing didn't happen?

 

[Cygnus]

I know this event was discussed a while back but I can't find it.....

Meanwhile...........

[video]http://www.cnn.com/2017/11/08/us/air-force-academy-racist-message-trnd/index.html[/video]


I thought this kind of thing didn't happen?

Right. Jackasses like that make it tough for good willed folks of all kinds.
And it unfortunately happens. Check University of Michigan (Fake hijab threat. December 2016 She may get charged), Also recent racist graffiti events at Kent State turned out to be the "victim", Eastern Michigan University (almost caused riots October 2016-October 2017), and finally the "Swastika bandit" who has been vandalizing San Fran's BART was caught, but only on film. He did not strike me as what one would think a typical swastika lover would look like.
What's the motive of these folks? Do they understand that they are actually hurting innocent folks and true victims?

 

[OurDee]

I've slowed my response time to trolls. I still work on my smoothness to engage threats. But after watching old men's reactions to what goes on around them I don't think of them as slow any more. Wise people: keep their mouth shut longer, their eyes open while they pray, concentrating on weaknesses. I marvel at old people. They got that way by doing something I am only beginning to understand.

 

[printcraft]

I've slowed my response time to trolls. I still work on my smoothness to engage threats. But after watching old men's reactions to what goes on around them I don't think of them as slow any more. Wise people: keep their mouth shut longer, their eyes open while they pray, concentrating on weaknesses. I marvel at old people. They got that way by doing something I am only beginning to understand.

 

[jamil]

Seems like wrong thread.

 

[Cygnus]

Seems like wrong thread.

Maybe he was referring to my avatar?

 

[churchmouse]

I've slowed my response time to trolls. I still work on my smoothness to engage threats. But after watching old men's reactions to what goes on around them I don't think of them as slow any more. Wise people: keep their mouth shut longer, their eyes open while they pray, concentrating on weaknesses. I marvel at old people. They got that way by doing something I am only beginning to understand.

Makes sense but not in this thread.

 

[GodFearinGunTotin]

Makes sense but not in this thread.

The bots' English is getting better but context is a little lacking.

 

[BugI02]

I've slowed my response time to trolls. I still work on my smoothness to engage threats. But after watching old men's reactions to what goes on around them I don't think of them as slow any more. Wise people: keep their mouth shut longer, their eyes open while they pray, concentrating on weaknesses. I marvel at old people. They got that way by doing something I am only beginning to understand.

The Grey Man is always invisible in plain sight.


The Grey Man is totally aware of his environs, his own capabilities or lack thereof, his weaponry and his levels of competence with that weaponry. He constantly strives to improve upon both his capabilities and competence. In public, he is always respectful, even to the point of obsequiousness if the situation calls for it. He always appears to be just a little confused by what is happening around him, while in reality he is alertly doing a tactical assessment.


The Grey Man NEVER draws attention to himself by word, dress, action, or mannerism. The Young Grey Man is dismissed as a wimp, the Older as a doddering old fool. The Grey Man derives great inner satisfaction from having this portrayal of himself accepted by all he meets, for it means he is succeeding in his disguise of his actual persona.


The Grey Man is a private man. He practices with his weaponry in private, or only with his fellow Grey Men, always in a secluded location. If he must resort to use of a public facility, he schedules his practice for times when he is likely to be the only one there. At such times he would probably wear bright clothing, to be remembered only as ‘that guy in the red jacket and sunglasses’, a quite different person from his usual persona. If right-handed, he would always occupy the leftmost station on a NRA bullseye pistol range, with his back to an observer, or the rightmost one for riflery or combat pistol practice. He would not have his name emblazoned on clothing or equipment, nor would he have any noteworthy affiliation proclaimed on his cap. “He’s just a guy. Comes every Wednesday morning for his coffeebreak. Always pays cash.”


The Grey Man does not drive a pink Cadillac with steer horns on the hood, NOR does he drive the biggest mutherin’ 4X4-with-all-the-bells-and-whistles BOV in the lot. The older his vehicle is, the rustier, the less likely it is to draw attention (or to be stolen, for that matter). This vehicle is, under its exterior, scrupulously maintained and in excellent running order. If pulled over by authority on the basis of appearance, it can be shown to meet or exceed all requirements under licensing laws, and an obsequious co-operative manner precludes a search under the seats. The Grey Man does not speed on the highway: cruise control is his friend. So is the Highway Patrol: he waves to any he sees. If he travels the same route constantly, at the same times, The Grey Man becomes a ‘fixture’ and can be dismissed from conscious observation.


It helps the Survivor to build up this persona of The Grey Man gradually and over time. The anti-gun sheeple neighbors will quickly rat out the ‘Patriot’ who is always loudly declaiming about his ‘Rights’ and ‘what will happen if they try to take my guns’. The Grey Man goes far out of his way never to offend anyone, imitating the duck which appears calm on the surface of his pond whilst paddling like hell under the surface.


Be seen as conservative in all you do. A Survivor is a Grey Man, and that little old grey man alone over there in the corner is probably a Survivor!


And that young guy next to him? Just another wimp? Or are they both watching each other’s backs?


Making the other guy waste precious time in assessing the situation is a big part of staying alive. Practice being grey now, while there's time to build your skills.

 

[BugI02]

Double