Colin Kaepernick protests the Anthem

[Kutnupe14]

It does have kind of a dog whistle tone about it...

I'm not sure which is worse, the small group of people shouting "racist!" or the much larger group of people claiming to be persecuted and projecting. I'm going to reserve my butthurt for those that call out JettaKnight specifically & explicitly. And even so, just because someone wants to make a fool of themselves... well that's on them.

I don't think Jamil was blowing a dog whistle, purposefully, but he did just exclude a sizable amount of people from "Middle America." Goes back to the "can I be American too?" Question I asked a while back, because obviously there are some, regardless of where you are from, who don't consider the sum of America... just those pieces they identify with.

 

[JettaKnight]

I can only speak for myself. I have nothing to be ashamed of, and I was an early and enthusiastic Trump supporter (April 2016)

Yeah, we all know that...



Hi, Bug!

 

[JettaKnight]

I don't think Jamil was blowing a dog whistle, purposefully, but he did just exclude a sizable amount of people from "Middle America." Goes back to the "can I be American too?" Question I asked a while back, because obviously there are some, regardless of where you are from, who don't consider the sum of America... just those pieces they identify with.

No, I would never accuse Jamil of that either.

I'm too have a problem with desconstructing Americans into groups that then claim to be true Americans, unlike those over there... it inevitably ends in feuds and entrenchment.

I also find it ironic when someone complains about being lumped together and vilified as a whole group because of conservative values, then goes on to lump all liberals into a group of hate-mongering race-baiters and gender confusionists.

 

[bwframe]

How many years will it take us to get beyond the last eight or nine?

 

[JettaKnight]

How many years will it take us to get beyond the last eight or nine?

IIRC, it took a long time before the dem's stopped crying that Bush stole the election... so I figure 2.5 years.

 

[Kutnupe14]

No, I would never accuse Jamil of that either.

I'm too have a problem with desconstructing Americans into groups that then claim to be true Americans, unlike those over there... it inevitably ends in feuds and entrenchment.

I also find it ironic when someone complains about being lumped together and vilified as a whole group because of conservative values, then goes on to lump all liberals into a group of hate-mongering race-baiters and gender confusionists.

True...
now going back yo my original premise of Trump thinking those that support him are racist, it stems from this.

Sadly, because president Obama has done such a poor job as president, you won't see another black president for generations!

https://twitter.com/realdonaldtrump/status/537157586316165120?lang=en

Those words are VERY telling. Trump isn't only reflecting on Obama, but the voting public. The part of the voting public he's trying to reach out to. He is saying, unabashedly, that enough racists exist in America to determine the outcome of a presidential election. And from that voting public, they will choose not elect another black president, not because that potential black president may have a bad platform or people don't trust his ability, but solely because the last president was black, and they believe that another black president would be undesired. Thats ******* racism, and the president is saying that's what much of the American electorate is composed of, racists.
For a guy running for president, who believed that nonsense, why would they not play to that belief? So, IMO, it's completely fair to ask. (speaking generally), "if you don't like being called a racist, and it bothers you to your core, why did you vote for a guy who thinks you ARE a racist?"

 

[BugI02]

To stop the madness

 

[femurphy77]

Why doesn't he wear shorts like that anymore?

He took a gay vaccine??


(I'll see you all after my time out expires!)

 

[femurphy77]

I am still sideways over the "Owners" statement.
I have always worked for an owner even when it was me. Except for public service and the like we all work for an owner. Get the **** over it.

I'm telling. . . . .you said ****!

 

[Woobie]

True...
now going back yo my original premise of Trump thinking those that support him are racist, it stems from this.

https://twitter.com/realdonaldtrump/status/537157586316165120?lang=en

Those words are VERY telling. Trump isn't only reflecting on Obama, but the voting public. The part of the voting public he's trying to reach out to. He is saying, unabashedly, that enough racists exist in America to determine the outcome of a presidential election. And from that voting public, they will choose not elect another black president, not because that potential black president may have a bad platform or people don't trust his ability, but solely because the last president was black, and they believe that another black president would be undesired. Thats ******* racism, and the president is saying that's what much of the American electorate is composed of, racists.
For a guy running for president, who believed that nonsense, why would they not play to that belief? So, IMO, it's completely fair to ask. (speaking generally), "if you don't like being called a racist, and it bothers you to your core, why did you vote for a guy who thinks you ARE a racist?"

Or, he could be saying democrats are racist.

 

[femurphy77]

I'm not sure, but I think you voted for Trump, right? Now, I'll acknowledge that you said racism "probably" does exist. Despite, you not being a racist, you voted for a person who clearly thinks you are, and that white privilege exists. President Trump may not personally be a racist, IDK, but based on the things he's said and done, he obviously believes that a sizable portion of his supporters are... and he plays to that. For people who aren't racist and take exception to those that believe they are, how does that reconcile with supporting someone like Trump?

I know that this wasn't directed at me but having pulled the lever next to Trumps name I will say that on that day I stood in the booth for several minutes asking myself why we were given the two disgusting choices that faced me on the ballot that day. I voted against Hillary that day because I feared what she might do should she occupy that office. My hope in voting for the other guy that day was that Washington would so fall over themselves with him in office that nothing but gridlock would occur and give we the people time to reboot and DEMAND real representatives in 4 years. Nothing more, nothing less.

I agree that his racist empowering rhetoric was a ploy to buy votes and possibly nothing else and that his detractors, the media, et al are eager to pin the racist label on him for suggesting nothing more than the need to secure our borders. I should stay out of the political section.

 

[Kutnupe14]

Or, he could be saying democrats are racist.

I didn't specify party, and saw no reason to do so. The premise is factual, on it face, if one is saying that a person won't be elected because they are black. Either they are racist, or they believe the people deciding the election are racist. There's no middle ground.

 

[Kutnupe14]

I know that this wasn't directed at me but having pulled the lever next to Trumps name I will say that on that day I stood in the booth for several minutes asking myself why we were given the two disgusting choices that faced me on the ballot that day. I voted against Hillary that day because I feared what she might do should she occupy that office. My hope in voting for the other guy that day was that Washington would so fall over themselves with him in office that nothing but gridlock would occur and give we the people time to reboot and DEMAND real representatives in 4 years. Nothing more, nothing less.

I agree that his racist empowering rhetoric was a ploy to buy votes and possibly nothing else and that his detractors, the media, et al are eager to pin the racist label on him for suggesting nothing more than the need to secure our borders. I should stay out of the political section.

Why? You're even-kneeled IMO, and I respect your views. Clinton was an equally bad choice. I've voted both parties in presidential elections... but those days are over for me.

 

[jamil]

I'd like for you to define my standards. I'm really curious what you think that is.

Still waiting.

If it's "absolute," then you think must think the same of MLK Jr, as you do with Kaepernick. As, again, what I stated earlier, an "absolute" America, did not oppress black people during King's time.
And I'd still like to know what the definition of "Middle America" is, because it seems like you are excluding a heck of a lot of people out of that part of America.

No. I don't think it's MLK Jr and Kaepernick are anywhere in the same league. I don't think the circumstances 60 years ago is anywhere near what they are now. And, I said "nearly absolute" or something to that effect, for the lack of a better term, as I hurriedly pecked that out preparing for a meeting.

I think I made it clear what were talking about, and what I stipulated was real institutional racism, baked into laws and government, local, state, federal. That's not what's happening now. I don't know how many times I need to tell you that it is an individual problem now. There's no more laws that can be written to make it any more illegal for institutional racism to exist, unless you're defining it like the SJWs do. Are you a SJW Kut?

Back then, it was institutional racism. It's nowhere near that now. A huge majority of white people have made great strides to progress from where they were in the 60s to what it is now. Kaepernick says he won't stand for the flag of a country that oppresses black people. That spits in the face of all the progress made. If people of color can't understand why that's insulting, maybe white people aren't the only ones who need to progress.

 

[jamil]

I'm not sure, but I think you voted for Trump, right? Now, I'll acknowledge that you said racism "probably" does exist. Despite, you not being a racist, you voted for a person who clearly thinks you are, and that white privilege exists. President Trump may not personally be a racist, IDK, but based on the things he's said and done, he obviously believes that a sizable portion of his supporters are... and he plays to that. For people who aren't racist and take exception to those that believe they are, how does that reconcile with supporting someone like Trump?

C'mon Kut. You know that's nonsense. I voted for Trump. Not happy about it, but it was the least worst option. I don't believe Trump is a racist, or at least any more racist than the average American, and I don't believe Trump played his supporters for racists. You watch too much CNN. Or maybe you're just projecting. Either way, you don't get to tell Trump supporters what they believe Trump is. That's something they have to define for themselves. Race never crossed my mind. Hillary did. <shudder/>

 

[jamil]

I don't think Jamil was blowing a dog whistle, purposefully, but he did just exclude a sizable amount of people from "Middle America." Goes back to the "can I be American too?" Question I asked a while back, because obviously there are some, regardless of where you are from, who don't consider the sum of America... just those pieces they identify with.

Conservatives. Average rural conservate in flyover country. If you happen to fall in that category and you're white, you're called a racist. If you happen to fall into that category and you're black, they have names for those people too.

ETA: The dogwhistle comment is plain silly. Stop it people.

 

[jamil]

No, I would never accuse Jamil of that either.

I'm too have a problem with desconstructing Americans into groups that then claim to be true Americans, unlike those over there... it inevitably ends in feuds and entrenchment.

I also find it ironic when someone complains about being lumped together and vilified as a whole group because of conservative values, then goes on to lump all liberals into a group of hate-mongering race-baiters and gender confusionists.

A true American is an American citizen. Period. There is no class of people by any other identity that lays exclusive claim to being "American". Also, not all liberals are hate-mongering race-baiters and gender confusionists. Actually, not all liberals are even on the left. But just about all the people who are hate-mongering race-baiters and gender confusionists, you'll find them on the extreme left, but not so much on the right. The extreme right has other identitarian issues.

 

[Kutnupe14]

Still waiting.

It's not my place to define your personal standards.

 

[jamil]

I'd agree with that. It's like the wave of intentional attacks "the knockout game." When has anyone heard more about that? Is there a full thread on this somewhere?

Does there need to be?

 

[Kutnupe14]

C'mon Kut. You know that's nonsense. I voted for Trump. Not happy about it, but it was the least worst option. I don't believe Trump is a racist, or at least any more racist than the average American, and I don't believe Trump played his supporters for racists. You watch too much CNN. Or maybe you're just projecting. Either way, you don't get to tell Trump supporters what they believe Trump is. That's something they have to define for themselves. Race never crossed my mind. Hillary did. <shudder/>

Nonsense? What does the following mean to you? Trump said it, and I'm curious for it to be explained to me how the quote below, is not indicative of racist voters. I never said anything about what I believe about Trump voters. I only stated what Trump believes about voters who could determine an election, and asked how it reconciled with people that voted for him.

Sadly, because president Obama has done such a poor job as president, you won't see another black president for generations!

I imagine it will be dismissed, as his idiocy typically is, but his words were plain to see, and his meaning easily understood... at least to those willing to actually admit it.