Cleveland 12 yr old with toy gun shot in park

[Denny347]

I'm not one of them. It's obviously extremely subjective and situation dependent but someone pointing a realistic looking gun at me and making an effort to convince me that it is real is going to be successful and receive the appropriate response.

Oh, I know you are not one of them.

 

[injb]

Being a toy is irrelevant. Look at the pic, would any of us be able to tell it was a toy without getting up close and handling it? Kids are stealing these form Walmart to use them for robberies. They would not be able to get away with the robberies if people did not think they were real. Like I've said before, we are getting a rash of 11-13yr olds doing business robberies lately. The age of potential threats has just gone down. They are committing burglaries, stealing cars, etc. What we did as kids 35 years ago is NOT acceptable anymore. The ONLY guns kids had back then were toys and it was 100% unheard of for anyone under 16-18 to be doing the crimes that we see now. Now, it is 100% realistic to believe a child could be a threat. Add that, kids these days are looking older than they are. I have trouble guessing the ages of many kids as they look older. A kid pointing a gun at people is a valid threat and should be treated as such. I am guessing that many here will tell us that if faced with this scenario that they would rather take a bullet than assume the real looking gun was actually real. That's fine, but can you gamble the life of your partner with that same stance? How about an innocent bystander? Those are considerations one must weigh within milliseconds. It is hard to know how you'd react until you are there and the one making the decision. I will tell you, it sucks. No one wants to be in this position. Sometimes you have no choice.

I sympathize with anyone who truly has to make a tough decision like that in milliseconds. However, in this case, according to reports I've read based on the video, about 10 seconds elapsed from the time they arrived at the location and saw, him to the time that he was shot. During that time he wasn't pointing the gun at anyone - there wasn't even anyone else in the immediate vicinity. So I'm skeptical when people say that he had to make a split second decision.

 

[calcot7]

So what should have happened? From the article seems the caller wasn't "freaking out", how should this have played out? Everyone should just go about their business because a kid in a park pointing a gun is what OK?

Not that long ago........it was.

 

[Doublehelix]

I think that in addition to all our "natural" biases against people/situations that are different to our own, the media helps to perpetuate those stereotypes through movies/TV. We all see images of thugs dressed in hoodies brandishing handguns, and these images get burned into our brains. All of these images affect our ability to make snap decisions. If I saw a 12 YO boy in a cowboy costume or army uniform with his buddies at a park, my mental image and impression is going to be different than a lone kid brandishing a pistol. It is sad and hard to admit, but it is true nonetheless.

Our mental image of what constitutes a threat is biased.

 

[ArcadiaGP]

As if there's anything left in Cleveland to riot.

BREAKING: Grand jury declines to indict Cleveland officers involved in Tamir Rice shooting.

Prosecutor Tim McGinty says he does not believe law requires police to wait and see if a gun is actually real.

What's the media's race narrative streak at now? Martin - not guilty. Mike Brown - no indictment. Rice - No indictment. Grey - Hung jury

 

[Kirk Freeman]

BREAKING: Grand jury declines to indict Cleveland officers involved in Tamir Rice shooting.

Not unexpected as a matter of law. The thing that bugs me about this is how close they were to him. Why disembark on top of him if they think the gun is real?

(I don't know, asking a legit question, because I do not know, not being a smarta**)

 

[Alpo]

Yep. This one stinks.

 

[ArcadiaGP]

Prosecutor Matt Meyer bestows posthumous title of "active shooter" to Tamir Rice, despite Rice being the only person shot.

 

[voidsherpa]

Why disembark on top of him if they think the gun is real?

Probably didn't see it until he grabbed for it in his waistband.

http://www.nydailynews.com/news/nat...eased-fatal-police-shooting-article-1.2449384

 

[phylodog]

Not unexpected as a matter of law. The thing that bugs me about this is how close they were to him. Why disembark on top of him if they think the gun is real?

(I don't know, asking a legit question, because I do not know, not being a smarta**)

I cannot find a legitimate reason for their tactics. That said, what they did may have been extremely inadvisable but not unlawful and probably not against department policy.

 

[chipbennett]

Legally correct, if tactically unsound. Rice, and he alone, put himself in such a position, both in his actions that led to police being called, and in his actions in response to the police. (That is all true only to the extent that Rice, at 12 and perhaps not fully mentally capable even for one his age, was responsible for his own actions. For the rest, his mother is at fault, for leaving him unattended in public, with what anyone would reasonably believe to be a real, 1911 pistol.)

 

[Kirk Freeman]

I cannot find a legitimate reason for their tactics. That said, what they did may have been extremely inadvisable but not unlawful and probably not against department policy.

pdog, thank you. Doing what you do, that means a lot answering that for me.

I don't know much about guns and fighting but I could not get my head around unlimbering right in front of the threat like that.

Maybe he thought he was blocking a lane of fire? Maybe he did not realize how close he was (how stress impacts vision)?

However, you are quite correct as a matter of law, nothing illegal about doing so.

 

[Kutnupe14]

Legally correct, if tactically unsound. Rice, and he alone, put himself in such a position, both in his actions that led to police being called, and in his actions in response to the police. (That is all true only to the extent that Rice, at 12 and perhaps not fully mentally capable even for one his age, was responsible for his own actions. For the rest, his mother is at fault, for leaving him unattended in public, with what anyone would reasonably believe to be a real, 1911 pistol.)

I think his actions (Rice), were completely compatible with boy of 12. For all we know, when the police were rolling up, Rice was thinking "oh, crap, I'm in trouble, let me show them that this is a toy gun".... obviously, the wrong move.
Also, the officer's response (outside of driving behavior) was sound IMO.
Let's simply call it what it was, without overthinking it, a tragic event.

Edit: I'm sure the officers that were involved in this aren't high-fiving over getting a bad guy. I'm sure, after finding out all the facts, it weighs heavily on their minds. The unfortunately have to live with it.

 

[phylodog]

Let's simply call it what it was, without overthinking it, a tragic event.

Agreed. Hopefully one which lead to some serious soul searching and subsequent training at that agency.

 

[Denny347]

These are the kind of incidents that cause officers to leave the profession and kills family relationships. Tragic indeed.

 

[ArcadiaGP]

City of Cleveland to pay $6 million to Tamir Rice's family to settle lawsuit | cleveland.com

 

[Joniki]

City of Cleveland to pay $6 million to Tamir Rice's family to settle lawsuit | cleveland.com

This is absolutely HORSE CRAP!

 

[Kutnupe14]

This is absolutely HORSE CRAP!

Cities would rather go with a payout than endure the bad press that this trial would generate.

 

[DeadeyeChrista'sdad]

Chip Bennet touched upon my biggest question. Why in heaven's name would Rice's parents let him out of the house with an air soft pistol with the orange tip removed? Why? Has this not occurred to ANYONE? Isn't the very possibility of an incident like this the very reason the magic tip is mandated?

 

[Kutnupe14]

Chip Bennet touched upon my biggest question. Why in heaven's name would Rice's parents let him out of the house with an air soft pistol with the orange tip removed? Why? Has this not occurred to ANYONE? Isn't the very possibility of an incident like this the very reason the magic tip is mandated?

From my understanding, he didn't leave the house with the airsoft gun, but rather, had it given to him that day, by a friend who wasn't present at the time of the shooting.