Cleveland 12 yr old with toy gun shot in park

[Expat]

And there we have it.

 

[BigBoxaJunk]

In a statement about the video, Rice's family said, "It is our belief that this situation could have been avoided and that Tamir should still be here with us." The family asked the community to remain calm and keep protests peaceful.

I think most families would believe that. I know I would.

 

[mrjarrell]

Now it's coming out that the shooter was dismissed and allowed to resign from a previous department for what looks like some kind of emotional breakdown issue where firearms was concerned. Might explain pulling up on a kid and killing him in the space of 2 seconds.

Cop Who Killed Tamir Rice Was Previously Kicked off Force for 'Dismal' Gun Performance, Emotional Instability - Hit & Run : Reason.com

 

[chipbennett]

Now it's coming out that the shooter was dismissed and allowed to resign from a previous department for what looks like some kind of emotional breakdown issue where firearms was concerned. Might explain pulling up on a kid and killing him in the space of 2 seconds.

Cop Who Killed Tamir Rice Was Previously Kicked off Force for 'Dismal' Gun Performance, Emotional Instability - Hit & Run : Reason.com

Looks like legitimate fodder for a civil suit - though with video evidence of Rice lifting his sweatshirt and reaching for the gun, it will be very difficult to disprove self-defense.

 

[mrjarrell]

The DoJ has finished its report and shows systemic abuse in the Cleveland PD. Years of abuse and the latest is a kid who was killed 2 seconds after the cops pulled up. If this nonsense continues the good cops who aren't going around killing people are going to get caught up in a war.

http://www.nytimes.com/2014/12/05/us/justice-dept-inquiry-finds-abuses-by-cleveland-police.html

 

[AA&E]

I know I am a little late to this party but that is such BS I felt the need to respond. I have never met either of these officers (for quite a few years I have read what they have posted on INGO and have come to respect them) I can guarantee you that with the years they have on the Police Dept. they have more than once risked their lives to intervene in an incident to save the life of another including 12 year olds so for you to say they feel their lives are more important then a 12 year old is pure horse ****.

As far as the incident that is being discussed, the officers in that were responding to someone whom they believed to be an adult, who was reported to be "waving" a gun around which is threatening the life of everyone in the park that day. They were not responding to a 12 year old boy with a toy gun in the park. As far as their tactics go, hell I have no idea what was going on and just like everyone else in this thread. I could just as easily speculate that maybe with the way they seemed to rush in that they believed the incident was taking place some where further away from where they were at and as they rushed to that area all of a sudden it was a "crap" there he is and they slammed on the breaks. I can tell you that this has happened more times then I can count in the past 27 years that I have responded to emergency calls as a Police Officer, Firefighter and EMT, so "BAM" all of a sudden you have to react sooner then you thought you would. Did this happen in this case, hell I don't know I am just guessing like everyone else but I could very easily see this occurring.

And lastly I am very sorry to read that you have lost a child, I can't even begin to imagine the pain that has cause you and I will say a prayer for you.

The calls came in stating it was a kid that had the gun and the caller fully expected it was a toy. How about doing some research and informing yourself before putting blinders on. It's attitudes like yours that allow the police to operate with impunity and zero accountability. Hopefully you aren't ever shot because some cop that is afraid of his shadow didn't like your 'movement' in your car after being pulled over for a seatbelt violation. The post you were responding to was Darral27 indicating an attitude of preference for the police officers lives over the 12 year old by the person he was replying to. Not the attitude of the police. Maybe you skimmed through the post, but his comments were pretty clear to anyone that took the time to read it.

 

[Kutnupe14]

The calls came in stating it was a kid that had the gun and the caller fully expected it was a toy. How about doing some research and informing yourself before putting blinders on. It's attitudes like yours that allow the police to operate with impunity and zero accountability. Hopefully you aren't ever shot because some cop that is afraid of his shadow didn't like your 'movement' in your car after being pulled over for a seatbelt violation. The post you were responding to was Darral27 indicating an attitude of preference for the police officers lives over the 12 year old by the person he was replying to. Not the attitude of the police. Maybe you skimmed through the post, but his comments were pretty clear to anyone that took the time to read it.

So even IF the caller expected, or even assumed, it was a toy, how does that change the officer's understanding? For having only one life on this planet, I would hope many aren't placing too much stock in the words "expected" or "assumed," and when combined with the word "gun."

 

[AA&E]

So even IF the caller expected, or even assumed, it was a toy, how does that change the officer's understanding? For having only one life on this planet, I would hope many aren't placing too much stock in the words "expected" or "assumed," and when combined with the word "gun."

Granted, but that 12 year old only had one life on this planet too. He didn't have the benefit of having fully lived his either. Nor the wisdom and life experience to suggest he was going to be shot in such a manner, in such a quick response. Personally, I think the officer driving the car is more responsible than the officer that pulled the trigger. If you have a reasonable suspicion that someone is truly armed and dangerous, you do not roll up next to them giving them a LOS and nothing for you to place between the perp and yourself. That wasn't bad tactics. That was completely lacking of tactics. Also, I am not sure the dispatcher conveyed to the officers fully and completely the tone of the call into 911, perhaps the responding officers weren't aware of complete story surrounding the suggestion of it's being a toy. But dispatch is a part of the LEO office too and it was their job to provide the officers with all the information IMO. Given the way they rolled up right next to the kid it makes me wonder if one officer heard and digested more info than the other. Perhaps the driver heard toy gun and the shooter didn't. Because if not why would you roll up right next to, fully exposing your broad side of the car to an armed assailant, and stop 10 to 15 feet away? Nothing about the way it went down makes sense.

 

[mrjarrell]

A Cleveland judge has found probable cause to charge the officers in Tamir Rice's killing. Now they just have to get a prosecutor to get the ball rolling. Given their history I am not going to hold my breath.

http://www.nytimes.com/2015/06/12/u...e-to-charge-officers-in-tamir-rice-death.html

 

[TheWabbit]

I guess they want to burn down some Midwest cities next. Cleveland doesn't have anything worth stealing (or protecting).

A Cleveland judge has found probable cause to charge the officers in Tamir Rice's killing. Now they just have to get a prosecutor to get the ball rolling. Given their history I am not going to hold my breath.

http://www.nytimes.com/2015/06/12/u...e-to-charge-officers-in-tamir-rice-death.html

 

[Denny347]

It took 7 months for this? Why now? What took 7 months? A judge of neighboring court found PC but not a single prosecutor was involved? I'm confused. How would a PC be brought before a Judge if it was not presented by a prosecutor? What would be the point? A PC is for a warrant or for an arrest, neither were sought here. I smell the stench of politics.

 

[Kirk Freeman]

Ohio law, Denny. The statute is funky in that private citizens can ask a judge to find probable cause but there it lies fallow until the Prosecuting Attorney does something with it (this heavy it must be grand jury under Ohio law).

Indiana has no equivalent which is why it seems alien to you (and me).

 

[Denny347]

Ohio law, Denny. The statute is funky in that private citizens can ask a judge to find probable cause but there it lies fallow until the Prosecuting Attorney does something with it (this heavy it must be grand jury under Ohio law).

Indiana has no equivalent which is why it seems alien to you (and me).

Oh wow, that it foreign to me. Thanks. I could only imagine what would get brought before a judge here if anyone off the street could show up and present a case....haha.

 

[chipbennett]

Ohio law, Denny. The statute is funky in that private citizens can ask a judge to find probable cause but there it lies fallow until the Prosecuting Attorney does something with it (this heavy it must be grand jury under Ohio law).

Indiana has no equivalent which is why it seems alien to you (and me).

Oh wow, that it foreign to me. Thanks. I could only imagine what would get brought before a judge here if anyone off the street could show up and present a case....haha.

Exactly what I was thinking. Does such an obscure law provide any legitimate purpose? I can just imagine some of the pleadings that might have been presented by laymen in the Trayvon Martin or Michael Brown deaths: basically, making up "facts" out of thin air.

Here's the judge's order:

http://www.nytimes.com/interactive/...e-to-charge-officers-in-tamir-rice-death.html

It appears to be based solely on the contents of the security video.

 

[Denny347]

It appears to be based solely on the contents of the security video.

Which makes sense considering that there was no carefully written PC, or similar, investigated by a trained professional, laying out all the facts NOT seen on the video....

 

[Denny347]

Exactly what I was thinking. Does such an obscure law provide any legitimate purpose? I can just imagine some of the pleadings that might have been presented by laymen in the Trayvon Martin or Michael Brown deaths: basically, making up "facts" out of thin air.

Here's the judge's order:

http://www.nytimes.com/interactive/...e-to-charge-officers-in-tamir-rice-death.html

It appears to be based solely on the contents of the security video.

Reading that affidavit it is no more thorough than what I could have provided watching the video from TV. I'm glad I'm not an LE in Ohio where any goof can watch a video then file a affidavit for murder based solely on that. That's down right scary.

 

[drillsgt]

Reading that affidavit it is no more thorough than what I could have provided watching the video from TV. I'm glad I'm not an LE in Ohio where any goof can watch a video then file a affidavit for murder based solely on that. That's down right scary.

Hopefully you're a much better cop with more sense than these two had.

 

[cobber]

Which makes sense considering that there was no carefully written PC, or similar, investigated by a trained professional, laying out all the facts NOT seen on the video....

Reading that affidavit it is no more thorough than what I could have provided watching the video from TV. I'm glad I'm not an LE in Ohio where any goof can watch a video then file a affidavit for murder based solely on that. That's down right scary.

Which makes you wonder about the judge that signed it?

 

[jamil]

Social justice FTW!

 

[Denny347]

Hopefully you're a much better cop with more sense than these two had.

Would I have acted different in their exact shoes? Maybe. Would have looked just as bad on video? Very possibly.