CIVIL RELIGIOUS DISCUSSION: General Religious Discussion...

[JettaKnight]

Ironic, or coincidental, Bill O'Reilly - Catholic.

I thought he was Mormon... No wait, that's the other guy.


Hey, what if we move the conversation to talk about fundamentalism?

What's up with the KJV only, everyone else is damned to hell folks?
I've been watching some videos, and it seems to me those dudes are modern day Pharisees - always preaching about other folks and their sin. I can see the appeal of a church like this - smugness is always appealing. I leave church feeling like I got a gut punch, but these folks get to leave knowing their on the straight and narrow and superior to everyone else.

https://www.russellmoore.com/2012/10/30/halloween-and-evangelical-identity/

 

[JettaKnight]

Here's a tweet from Russel Moore that I think fits:

If the world thinks we are crazy, it should be because we believe in a personal God, a blood atonement, an empty tomb, forgiveness of sins, etc., not because we are acting *actually* crazy.

 

[foszoe]

To me Fundamentalism is adherence to a strict literal interpretation of the Bible. It has its roots in controversies over science and religion (Darwinism), but also as a reaction to liberal biblical scholarship in the 19th century.

KJVism is a symptom of fundamentalism. Once a strict literal interpretation is an accepted principle for scriptural hermeneutics, there is a natural tendency to need a version as a rock as other versions are seen as shifting sand.

At a recent parish council meeting I argued against purchasing a "Creation vs Evolution" DVD set to show at the local library using anti-fundamentalism as a point in the discussion.

I thought he was Mormon... No wait, that's the other guy.


Hey, what if we move the conversation to talk about fundamentalism?

What's up with the KJV only, everyone else is damned to hell folks?
I've been watching some videos, and it seems to me those dudes are modern day Pharisees - always preaching about other folks and their sin. I can see the appeal of a church like this - smugness is always appealing. I leave church feeling like I got a gut punch, but these folks get to leave knowing their on the straight and narrow and superior to everyone else.

https://www.russellmoore.com/2012/10/30/halloween-and-evangelical-identity/

 

[rvb]

I thought he was Mormon... No wait, that's the other guy.


Hey, what if we move the conversation to talk about fundamentalism?

What's up with the KJV only, everyone else is damned to hell folks?
I've been watching some videos, and it seems to me those dudes are modern day Pharisees - always preaching about other folks and their sin. I can see the appeal of a church like this - smugness is always appealing. I leave church feeling like I got a gut punch, but these folks get to leave knowing their on the straight and narrow and superior to everyone else.

https://www.russellmoore.com/2012/10/30/halloween-and-evangelical-identity/

we had a young couple visit one Sunday... As various folks were welcoming them, the pastor walked by and someone introduced him. The only thing they said to the pastor was to ask if he read only from KJV. He said he usually reads from NIV or ESV at the pulpit, but refers to KJV when preparing sermons, as part of studies, etc, and before he barely finished talking they turned and walked out. I found it interesting that they would rather walk out and presumably not attend any church that Sunday than listen to a reading from another version. ... seemed they could have asked that question prior to visiting.... email, phone, FB, etc...

One thing I like about reading in my Bible app, can easily switch between many versions if I'm struggling with a passage...

-rvb

 

[T.Lex]

we had a young couple visit one Sunday... As various folks were welcoming them, the pastor walked by and someone introduced him. The only thing they said to the pastor was to ask if he read only from KJV. He said he usually reads from NIV or ESV at the pulpit, but refers to KJV when preparing sermons, as part of studies, etc, and before he barely finished talking they turned and walked out. I found it interesting that they would rather walk out and presumably not attend any church that Sunday than listen to a reading from another version. ... seemed they could have asked that question prior to visiting.... email, phone, FB, etc...

One thing I like about reading in my Bible app, can easily switch between many versions if I'm struggling with a passage...

-rvb

Agree.

Naturally, there's a Catholic version that I prefer for "day to day" stuff, but if I'm interested in the translated meaning (as opposed to personal meaning) and the depth of the language used, I like to have the parallel passages.

 

[Dead Duck]

we had a young couple visit one Sunday... As various folks were welcoming them, the pastor walked by and someone introduced him. The only thing they said to the pastor was to ask if he read only from KJV. He said he usually reads from NIV or ESV at the pulpit, but refers to KJV when preparing sermons, as part of studies, etc, and before he barely finished talking they turned and walked out. I found it interesting that they would rather walk out and presumably not attend any church that Sunday than listen to a reading from another version. ... seemed they could have asked that question prior to visiting.... email, phone, FB, etc...

One thing I like about reading in my Bible app, can easily switch between many versions if I'm struggling with a passage...

-rvb

When asked about bible versions, one of our super old ministers would tell people he studied from the original scrolls that he keeps in his office. I think he knew people thought of him as the old guy so he just wanted to keep up the joke.

 

[historian]

To me Fundamentalism is adherence to a strict literal interpretation of the Bible. It has its roots in controversies over science and religion (Darwinism), but also as a reaction to liberal biblical scholarship in the 19th century.

KJVism is a symptom of fundamentalism. Once a strict literal interpretation is an accepted principle for scriptural hermeneutics, there is a natural tendency to need a version as a rock as other versions are seen as shifting sand.

At a recent parish council meeting I argued against purchasing a "Creation vs Evolution" DVD set to show at the local library using anti-fundamentalism as a point in the discussion.

You are correct. KJVism tends to be only among the lesser educated fundamentalists (most "pastors" come because, "I WAS CALLED OF GOD HAYMEN!!!") and not from a seminary. Once you understand that textual criticism makes the Bible stronger, you end up with a much better few of the Bible.

ON an aside:

[video=youtube;v5rXuzOzplo]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v5rXuzOzplo[/video]

 

[JettaKnight]

A lot of modern fundamentalist look down education, is this unique to America? Is there another motivation for this apart from the anti-liberal beginnings? I had thought that it arose from great theologians at Princeton, rather than a "grassroots" movement.


Also, as I do some digging, KVJ-only was never part of fundamentalism till much later.

 

[ArcadiaGP]

 

[foszoe]

Is that Psalm 14 according to the Masoretic or LXX?

want to make sure I read the right one.

 

[indiucky]

Also, as I do some digging, KVJ-only was never part of fundamentalism till much later.

I'm a KJV guy because I like my Bible like I like my pews...Hard and uncomfortable.....Plus "Get thee behind me Satan" sounds cooler than, "get back..get back...get back to where you once belong devil..."

 

[historian]

I'm a KJV guy because I like my Bible like I like my pews...Hard and uncomfortable.....Plus "Get thee behind me Satan" sounds cooler than, "get back..get back...get back to where you once belong devil..."

Some things just should be in the KJV. Luke 2, Psalm 23, John 3:16. They only sound good that way.

 

[foszoe]

A lot of modern fundamentalist look down education, is this unique to America? Is there another motivation for this apart from the anti-liberal beginnings? I had thought that it arose from great theologians at Princeton, rather than a "grassroots" movement.


Also, as I do some digging, KVJ-only was never part of fundamentalism till much later.

Yeah that's why I use the word symptom or maybe I should have used derivative as it's an offspring fundamentalism. However if you really want to trace it all back to its roots starts with Sola scriptura

 

[foszoe]

I'm a KJV guy because I like my Bible like I like my pews...Hard and uncomfortable.....Plus "Get thee behind me Satan" sounds cooler than, "get back..get back...get back to where you once belong devil..."

pews who needs stinking pews? If you really want to be old school you'll stand and you'll like it

 

[JettaKnight]

I'm a KJV guy because I like my Bible like I like my pews...Hard and uncomfortable.....Plus "Get thee behind me Satan" sounds cooler than, "get back..get back...get back to where you once belong devil..."

But... you don't call other Christians heretics if they prefer ESV. I think that's my biggest complaint - the hard, wooden pews extends to attitude - hard and wooden.

I totally agree with the original elements of fundamentalism, because it's biblical. There's noting Biblical about favoring one translation so much that you brand all others as being of the devil.

 

[T.Lex]

This is probably the wrong thread for a "That's what she said" joke, right?

 

[Dead Duck]

Even saten believes in God so therefore devil worshipers should also believe in the existence of God, right? Well to further that, wouldn't saten also believe that Christ died for mans sins but he just won't let Him in. So wouldn't devil worshipers also at least acknowledge that Christ died for their sins?

Does that give devil worshipers a closer edge to getting in to Heaven than say - Atheists that don't believe in God at all?

I don't have my black bible handy so I can't check on this...

 

[T.Lex]

Well, yes - I think I agree with that reasoning.

Even satanists are theists.

Now, I'm not sure that's a dramatic improvement over atheists, from God's perspective. But it might count for something.

 

[JettaKnight]

What **** off both extremes?
[h=1]How ‘LBGT-Affirming’ Is Like KJV-Onlyism [/h]

https://www.thegospelcoalition.org/article/how-lbgt-affirming-is-like-king-james-onlyism/

 

[historian]

Hey Catholic Rob Bell:

https://babylonbee.com/news/us-open-officials-introduce-controversial-new-love-wins-rule/