CIVIL RELIGIOUS DISCUSSION: General Religious Discussion...

[JettaKnight]

I'll walk it back slightly and say its probably just as easy. With 9000 denominations of Protestant Christianity its hard to keep up.
....

I got a book you can borrow.

 

[T.Lex]

I think this should be the last word on the subject.

Welcome to INGO, you must be new here.

 

[foszoe]

he's obviously never met my wife.

Welcome to INGO, you must be new here.

 

[ArcadiaGP]

An Indiana priest was beaten by a man yelling, 'this is for all the little kids'

 

[Dead Duck]

.....and it starts......

 

[foszoe]

Byzantine Catholic too, so he may even be married.

 

[breakingcontact]

Totally not true. There is a hierarchy within the Protestant church. My son is a pastor and I have many pastor friends, at various levels of leadership. If some one should mess up, there is a reporting protocol, which is strict. I would challenge the statement that it is easier to "hide" in a protestant church. I would actually say the catholic church has been extremely lenient with the crimes against children; to the point of suspect themselves.

Interesting.

It should be easier to be exposed if the institution is interested in that. If they are interested in hiding it, may be easier to do so with a hierarchical bureaucracy.

 

[JettaKnight]

Byzantine Catholic too, so he may even be married.

So, he wasn't even RCC?

 

[ArcadiaGP]

So, he wasn't even RCC?

People willing to do violence for religious/political reasons rarely do their research. Generalizing groups is en vogue.

 

[Ziggidy]

I think this should be the last word on the subject.

I would agree, but then this gets reported.
Priest urges Vatican family conference to welcome gays | Fox News

 

[T.Lex]

I would agree, but then this gets reported.
Priest urges Vatican family conference to welcome gays | Fox News

To follow up on a theme from the Pope, being gay isn't necessarily the problem. Just like coveting other people's stuff, it matters what you do when presented with temptation.

 

[ArcadiaGP]

To follow up on a theme from the Pope, being gay isn't necessarily the problem. Just like coveting other people's stuff, it matters what you do when presented with temptation.

How do they prove that any gay person acts upon it, or even sins in their eyes?

What if it's just a person that doesn't want to procreate, and isn't attracted to the opposite sex, yet doesn't act on same-sex temptations?

I know it's just a big dumb hypothetical... but aren't they making assumptions with the stance, if being gay isn't the problem?

 

[T.Lex]

How do they prove that any gay person acts upon it, or even sins in their eyes?

What if it's just a person that doesn't want to procreate, and isn't attracted to the opposite sex, yet doesn't act on same-sex temptations?

I know it's just a big dumb hypothetical... but aren't they making assumptions with the stance, if being gay isn't the problem?

Which "they"?

There are some RCC priests who've gotten some publicity for "coming out" as gay. But, since they aren't married anyway, and taken a vow of chastity, well... its still kinda like being a vegetarian, but really liking steak. You gotta deal with not getting it anymore.

From the RCC side, the assumption is (and yes, this is dangerously close to the "deprogramming" that seems like a VERY bad idea when forced upon someone) that someone who feels same-sex attraction won't act on it.

Just like I shouldn't act on all sorts of other sinful temptations that are presented every day.

 

[Ziggidy]

To follow up on a theme from the Pope, being gay isn't necessarily the problem. Just like coveting other people's stuff, it matters what you do when presented with temptation.

Not sure if you read the article or not, but my take away is not loving a gay person, it is accepting their lifestyle.

"He urged them to remember gays are catholic, that they do not choose their orientation and have gifts to offer the church".

While I will we agree, again, we are to love the sinner....but hate the sin. I believe this article disagrees with the pope (and whomever) and does not believe that their lifestyle is a sin.

We've been down this road before. I did not mean to beat a dead horse.

 

[T.Lex]

Not sure if you read the article or not, but my take away is not loving a gay person, it is accepting their lifestyle.

"He urged them to remember gays are catholic, that they do not choose their orientation and have gifts to offer the church".

While I will we agree, again, we are to love the sinner....but hate the sin. I believe this article disagrees with the pope (and whomever) and does not believe that their lifestyle is a sin.

We've been down this road before. I did not mean to beat a dead horse.

Without seeing a transcript of the speech (which I don't have time to look for), I infer that because the article "didn't go there" that neither did the reverend. That is, he can talk all day long - consistent with church teachings - that the same-sex attraction is a personal one. Like any other temptation.

I think this article, and maybe even the speech, is an eye-of-the-beholder issue. The brief article didn't go into any problematic issues that you raise. I don't know if the speech did.

 

[GodFearinGunTotin]

If I identify myself as an adulterer, a shoplifter, a porn addict am I really in Christ? I might have been all of that at some point in my life but I put that away, I died to all of that when I accepted Christ. It's not to say I'm still not temped by old ways of course but I should do the best I can to leave that life behind me. How about if I identify myself as a homosexual? Isn't that the same thing? Am I idolizing that one trait of mine over doing the best I can to be like Jesus?

It sounds to me there's a demand for a particular class of sinner to be given dispensation that others are not.

He specifically urged Catholics to not focus on gays and their sexual morality while giving the sex lives and marital status of straight Catholics a pass.

I think many denominations are guilty of this hypocrisy.

 

[T.Lex]

If I identify myself as an adulterer, a shoplifter, a porn addict am I really in Christ? I might have been all of that at some point in my life but I put that away, I died to all of that when I accepted Christ. It's not to say I'm still not temped by old ways of course but I should do the best I can to leave that life behind me. How about if I identify myself as a homosexual? Isn't that the same thing? Am I idolizing that one trait of mine over doing the best I can to be like Jesus?

It sounds to me there's a demand for a particular class of sinner to be given dispensation that others are not.



I think many denominations are guilty of this hypocrisy.

Ok. This might be controversial.

I think homosexuality has been erroneously elevated above other kinds of sins as being "worse." I'm not saying its unreasonable. It is a relatively more open sin than, say, greed. It is also more likely to make people feel uncomfortable.

But, I see nothing biblically to elevate it above other sins.

My view of this "movement" let's say is to bring it more in line with treatment of other sins.

Now, that's my view. I will readily admit that others may have ulterior motives in "mainstreaming" the behavior to make it acceptable. That's on them.

 

[GodFearinGunTotin]

Ok. This might be controversial.

I think homosexuality has been erroneously elevated above other kinds of sins as being "worse." I'm not saying its unreasonable. It is a relatively more open sin than, say, greed. It is also more likely to make people feel uncomfortable.

But, I see nothing biblically to elevate it above other sins.

My view of this "movement" let's say is to bring it more in line with treatment of other sins.

Now, that's my view. I will readily admit that others may have ulterior motives in "mainstreaming" the behavior to make it acceptable. That's on them.

I think the reason that is is because of the culture that surrounds the more vocal and militant in that lifestyle--the accept us as we are or you're a bigot wing. There seems to be equivocating on this one topic among certain denominations. Is there any other sin they provide the same sort of cover for? Should we accept that people living in their sinful life-choices as they are without any expectation or desire to see them turn away from them? I think not.

I really don't think we're doing them any favors by turning them away (first) or by not helping them turn away from their sin as they mature in the faith. And yes, I think the same is true for the drunkard, the thief, and the [whatever]. Maybe that second part is in the "movement" and it's just not being publicized. I hope so, for their soul's sake.

 

[foszoe]

We were talking about pedophilia not gays unless one links the two this would be a different subject.

I would agree, but then this gets reported.
Priest urges Vatican family conference to welcome gays | Fox News

 

[GodFearinGunTotin]

We were talking about pedophilia not gays unless one links the two this would be a different subject.

I'm not sure you can separate these issues here. The fact that the vast majority of people molested by priests were boys indicates a linkage to me.