CIVIL RELIGIOUS DISCUSSION: All things Islam...

[IndyDave1776]

Wait did I miss like 100 pages of this thread between lunchtime and now

Yes. Churchmouse deleted about 120 of them!

(We have the old standard of purple for sarcasm, but did anyone come up with a particular color of text for lying?)

 

[jamil]

There you go being all serious when I am trying to be a wiseass!

Playing serious is part of the fun.

 

[ATM]

Well. I said you may assert things and then walk away from answering questions about it. It's not like I'm going to be a dick about it.

You reasonably concluded an implication from what it seemed I was saying, I even told you so.

That's the only relevant thing you've achieved from skimming and chattering about everything but this topic, and most everyone else already got that part. It was obvious.

Send some Muslims please, I prefer to challenge and be challenged. You can't do that.

 

[jamil]

Yes. Churchmouse deleted about 120 of them!

(We have the old standard of purple for sarcasm, but did anyone come up with a particular color of text for lying?)

Yeah. Teal.

Bug knows I'm just kidding.

 

[ATM]

Wait did I miss like 100 pages of this thread between lunchtime and now

Only the obvious, not many pages were necessary.

 

[IndyDave1776]

Yeah. Teal.

Bug knows I'm just kidding.

 

[Lelliott8]

Well this thread has run its course. Time to close it.



IBTL!!!!!!!!!!!!!11111one1

 

[ArcadiaGP]

Oh, I must have just missed where someone gave some compelling evidence to the contrary.

Do you have BBI on your ignore list?

I saw a typical assertion of "islam is teh evil" and that's about it. Didn't see a consensus on that.

Some background: I've evolved on this subject in the past year or so. I, too, blanketly admonished Islam with the low-information, absolute stance that people are tossing around here. Even got banned for it.

 

[PaulF]

ATM, what is your core point?

Is it simply that the beliefs and tenets of Islam are not grounded in reality? I agree, they are ridiculous...almost as ridiculous as Christianity's core beliefs and tenets.

That is a vey real problem with supposed "revealed truths", there is no way to verify that God is speaking anyone, including oneself.

 

[ATM]

Do you have BBI on your ignore list?

Do you have me on your ignore list?

I saw a typical assertion of "islam is teh evil" and that's about it.

That is about it. Everyone who considers Muslims evil rather than merely deceived is dead wrong.

Muslims are not my enemy, the designer of Islam is.

 

[Lelliott8]

Do you have BBI on your ignore list?

I saw a typical assertion of "islam is teh evil" and that's about it. Didn't see a consensus on that.

Some background: I've evolved on this subject in the past year or so. I, too, blanketly admonished Islam with the low-information, absolute stance that people are tossing around here. Even got banned for it.

If BBI had made a point responding to anything that I said, I would have responded. His post accused unnamed people of cherry-picking Quran quotes out of context, without interpreting them and using them to target and divide people.

I haven't quoted the Quran, nor would I need to. I have differentiated people from their beliefs and made historical arguments with mind to the OVERALL effect that the religion, the belief SYSTEM, has had over the course of human history. The ONLY argument I have seen presented by anyone defending Islam is that #NOTALLMUSLIMS are violent. The argument does nothing to defend the doctrine. It does nothing to defend Muslims who actually ACT based on this belief system. It does nothing to defend the ACTUAL historical violence that has been the direct effect of a system created to perpetuate itself through death and human suffering.

 

[ATM]

ATM, what is your core point?

Is it simply that the beliefs and tenets of Islam are not grounded in reality? I agree, they are ridiculous...almost as ridiculous as Christianity's core beliefs and tenets.

That is a vey real problem with supposed "revealed truths", there is no way to verify that God is speaking anyone, including oneself.

Atheists aren't my enemy, either, Paul.

 

[ArcadiaGP]

If BBI had made a point responding to anything that I said, I would have responded. His post accused unnamed people of cherry-picking Quran quotes out of context, without interpreting them and using them to target and divide people.

I haven't quoted the Quran, nor would I need to. I have differentiated people from their beliefs and made historical arguments with mind to the OVERALL effect that the religion, the belief SYSTEM, has had over the course of human history.

Alright, I didn't notice that distinction. There are areas of that in which I'd agree. I was probably more focused on the people blanketing all Muslims as potentially violent, etc... in that simply being a Muslim makes a person a risk.

The ONLY argument I have seen presented by anyone defending Islam is that #NOTALLMUSLIMS are violent. The argument does nothing to defend the doctrine. It does nothing to defend Muslims who actually ACT based on this belief system. It does nothing to defend the ACTUAL historical violence that has been the direct effect of a system created to perpetuate itself through death and human suffering.

While I've seen arguments here against Islam, and examples that it perpetuates violence... what about the parts of it that forbids the same violence that people say it perpetuates?

There are certainly some contradictions to be found. (This is in no way a statement that Islam is a Religion of Peace.)

 

[Lelliott8]

I was probably more focused on the people blanketing all Muslims as potentially violent, etc... in that simply being a Muslim makes a person a risk.

Islam is a system designed to enslave and destroy human beings. Being a Muslim is an inherently risky proposition. I'm not trying to demonize PEOPLE. I'm exposing the system. I don't want any person to strap a bomb to himself and kill people because he believed in lies.

While I've seen arguments here against Islam, and examples that it perpetuates violence... what about the parts of it that forbids the same violence that people say it perpetuates?

There are certainly some contradictions to be found. (This is in no way a statement that Islam is a Religion of Peace.)

Muslims are not to kill other devout Muslims. Aside from that, the restrictions on violence are applied to non-Muslims.

 

[hog slayer]

I was probably more focused on the people blanketing all Muslims as potentially violent, etc... in that simply being a Muslim makes a person a risk.



While I've seen arguments here against Islam, and examples that it perpetuates violence... what about the parts of it that forbids the same violence that people say it perpetuates?

There are certainly some contradictions to be found. (This is in no way a statement that Islam is a Religion of Peace.)

That's me. I'm making a blanket statement to that exact effect. I'm not hiding, either. I'm still waiting on someone to give me a decent rebuttal. Something other than the same old "not all Muslims are suicide bombers." In large part I will be very difficult to sway. On the other hand, I look forward to any Islamic apologist that doesn't rely on temper tantrums and threats of violence to sway me. But, it seems no one is willing to put in the effort to disprove my "cherry picking"and other out of context quotes.

At the very least you have admitted that Islam is not a religion of peace. That's a heck of an end result to several days effort.

 

[ArcadiaGP]

That's me. I'm making a blanket statement to that exact effect. I'm not hiding, either. I'm still waiting on someone to give me a decent rebuttal. Something other than the same old "not all Muslims are suicide bombers." In large part I will be very difficult to sway. On the other hand, I look forward to any Islamic apologist that doesn't rely on temper tantrums and threats of violence to sway me. But, it seems no one is willing to put in the effort to disprove my "cherry picking"and other out of context quotes.

You aren't listening to the people telling you why that's false. There's literally no way your blanket statement survives with any scrutiny... simply because it makes no sense.

At the very least you have admitted that Islam is not a religion of peace. That's a heck of an end result to several days effort.

No effort, at all, was expended on this conclusion. I've never said Islam was a religion of peace, or even alluded to that.

With this, I've been consistent. I just find it much easier these days to properly detach the religion from the people.

 

[ATM]

Let's not be quick to dismiss the blatant revisionism of Judeo-Christian history, either, which anyone familiar with Judeo-Christian history should immediately recognize but others may have simply adopted as truth.

Claiming Islam to be a branch of Judeo-Christianity is a rather difficult claim to support, but it does make sense that it would be included when you consider the designer and his primary object of hatred, God.

Mankind is only a secondary object of hatred to the created being that fancies himself like God.

So much hate.

Lord, have mercy!

 

[hog slayer]

You aren't listening to the people telling you why that's false. There's literally no way your blanket statement survives with any scrutiny... simply because it makes no sense.



No effort, at all, was expended on this conclusion. I've never said Islam was a religion of peace, or even alluded to that.

With this, I've been consistent. I just find it much easier these days to properly detach the religion from the people.

One reason why I should not be particularly skeptical of trusting a Muslim? Use the currently accepted definitions of Muslim, Quran, Allah, Islam. All Muslims. Don't give me that same old of liner that they can't ALL be suicide bombers, either. Try a bit harder since that's the only attempt at rebuttal I can recall.

 

[ATM]

I trust lots of people I know are deceived. I trust that they are deceived, of course, but that doesn't generally make them worse people, just more susceptible and possibly prone to use poor judgement.

 

[hog slayer]

Originally Posted by GPIA7R View Post
I was probably more focused on the people blanketing all Muslims as potentially violent, etc... in that simply being a Muslim makes a person a risk.

I do not wish to attack the person. That is not my goal. I also have acquaintances and even one friend that claims Islam. He admits to not practicing the religion, only claims it from his upbringing. I've had the discussions with him. So maybe I should spend time with clarifying that I am asking someone to refute that simply being a Muslim makes a person a risk. Please use our accepted tens of Quran, Islam, Muslim, and Allah.