CIVIL RELIGIOUS DISCUSSION: All things Christianity

[ATM]

Without the Bible there is god, gods and more gods. The Bible is the revelation of the one true God, YHWH.

Look around, with the Bible there is still god, gods and more gods. The Bible is but a collection of a tiny few revelations of the one true God's interactions with His creation.

Apart from Him, that collection would be worse than nothing - it would be a counterfeit record, a hoax, a lie, an agenda, a deception.

 

[T.Lex]

Without the Bible there is god, gods and more gods. The Bible is the revelation of the one true God, YHWH.

On the latter point, I think there is an INGO consensus (or as close as INGO can get) that is true. The Bible is the revelation of God.

But, your first point, is only true (IMHO) with regard to the beliefs of man. God existed everywhere, even in places where He was not known, and where people did not believe in Him. Those humans had gods because they were unaware of God.

But that does not mean that He only existed because the Truth was revealed. He existed, even if He was not known.

Granted, I may be parsing your comments too thinly. If so, I don't mean to. I'm just trying to understand where you're coming from on this.

If you are saying without the Bible, mankind would continue to have many gods, that's probably true. Heck, its basically true in secular areas even today.

 

[2A_Tom]

I'll change my statement to, without the Bible there would be no knowledge of the one true God and his plan for us.

He chose to reveal Himself in this manner because he loves us.

With out the Bible his existence and presence would be known to man.

Romans 1:20 For the invisible things of him from the creation of the world are clearly seen, being understood by the things that are made, even his eternal power and Godhead; so that they are without excuse:

However His revelation is through the Bible.

 

[ATM]

Only with God is the Bible a great gift, a storehouse of truths and Truth, like treasures awaiting those who earnestly seek to uncover the hidden matters buried within.

His revelation is by the Spirit.

 

[T.Lex]

I'll change my statement to, without the Bible there would be no knowledge of the one true God and his plan for us.

He chose to reveal Himself in this manner because he loves us.

With out the Bible his existence and presence would be known to man.

However His revelation is through the Bible.

Ok. I think we'd be getting into nuance and hypotheticals to continue down this path. (Not that there's anything wrong with that.)

Fortunately, we don't need to wonder what the world would be like without the Bible. Whether an all-powerful God could have chosen another mechanism by which to reveal Himself might be fun parlor debate, but it really mostly doesn't matter.

 

[ATM]

Ok. I think we'd be getting into nuance and hypotheticals to continue down this path. (Not that there's anything wrong with that.)

Fortunately, we don't need to wonder what the world would be like without the Bible. Whether an all-powerful God could have chosen another mechanism by which to reveal Himself might be fun parlor debate, but it really mostly doesn't matter.

God didn't use the Bible as a mechanism by which to reveal Himself. God used the Bible to record a tiny few occurrences of Him revealing Himself throughout history. Plumbing the depths of those interactions and how they were received and applied begins to reveal even more than one would first notice on the surface.

Hidden treasures of the interactions, surely, but nothing apart from the God who actually chooses to interact with His creation.

 

[2A_Tom]

Only with God is the Bible a great gift, a storehouse of truths and Truth, like treasures awaiting those who earnestly seek to uncover the hidden matters buried within.

Agreed

His revelation is by the Spirit.

Semi- agreement .

The Spirit speaks to the heart, bowels, id or whatever you call the real you. but without specific revelation of Himself there is no salvation. In times past God revealed Himself through Apostles, Prophets and Himself, but now through the Bible.

1 Corinthians 13:10 | View whole chapter | See verse in context
But when that which is perfect is come, then that which is in part shall be done away.

 

[T.Lex]

God didn't use the Bible as a mechanism by which to reveal Himself. God used the Bible to record a tiny few occurrences of Him revealing Himself throughout history.

Aaaand now we're back to semantics.

And I'm always up for some antics.

You: God did not use the Bible as a mechanism by which to reveal himself. Instead, God used the Bible to reveal parts of himself through history.

Ok. I could probably muster up some way to disagree, but it brings us back to angels dancing on pins.

 

[ATM]

Semi- agreement .

The Spirit speaks to the heart, bowels, id or whatever you call the real you. but without specific revelation of Himself there is no salvation. In times past God revealed Himself through Apostles, Prophets and Himself, but now through the Bible.

Whatever the Spirit reveals is God Himself revealing to you. God is capable of revealing anything He chooses to reveal (including Himself) by any means He ever chose to use in the past and by any means He chooses to use in the future, excepting only what He has limited Himself from ever employing again.

Bible deism is a fatal trap.

 

[ATM]

Aaaand now we're back to semantics.

And I'm always up for some antics.

You: God did not use the Bible as a mechanism by which to reveal himself. Instead, God used the Bible to reveal parts of himself through history.

Ok. I could probably muster up some way to disagree, but it brings us back to angels dancing on pins.

If He used the Bible to reveal those parts, how did they get into the Bible? Conundrum.

Semantics are important that we may reason together.

 

[2A_Tom]

Well, by all accounts He chose to reveal himself through the Bible.

The pejorative suggestion that I believe the bible is god is meant to be offensive in all instances.

I will agree to be civil in my dealings with you, whether or not you do.

The FACT is, that I BELIEVE that the Bible has all of the answers I need.

 

[T.Lex]

If He used the Bible to reveal those parts, how did they get into the Bible? Conundrum.

The resolution of which is an unresolved question, but upon which reasonable people disagree.

Ultimately, to me, the resolution is unnecessary. The Bible is, as I mentioned upthread, an invitation and set of instructions. It invites the beginning of a relationship with God and then provides instructions on how to deepen that relationship, and all the blessings that flow therefrom.

 

[ATM]

Well, by all accounts He chose to reveal himself through the Bible.

The pejorative suggestion that I believe the bible is god is meant to be offensive in all instances.

I will agree to be civil in my dealings with you, whether or not you do.

The FACT is, that I BELIEVE that the Bible has all of the answers I need.

You do not understand my challenge if you consider it uncivil. Consider that your definition and mine may differ.

I don't mind if you're offended, but I would mind if that caused you to retreat rather than to advance and continue.

Here: Bible Deists - Gentle WisdomGentle Wisdom

 

[ATM]

The resolution of which is an unresolved question, but upon which reasonable people disagree.

Ultimately, to me, the resolution is unnecessary. The Bible is, as I mentioned upthread, an invitation and set of instructions. It invites the beginning of a relationship with God and then provides instructions on how to deepen that relationship, and all the blessings that flow therefrom.

It is only an unresolved question for you, and you may only grasp one or two surface facets of the Bible, but that does not hinder me in the slightest from continuing to discuss if you'd like.

 

[BugI02]

If He used the Bible to reveal those parts, how did they get into the Bible? Conundrum.

Semantics are important that we may reason together.

Alpha and Omega. I suspect God is immune from paradox

 

[2A_Tom]

The resolution of which is an unresolved question, but upon which reasonable people disagree.

Ultimately, to me, the resolution is unnecessary. The Bible is, as I mentioned upthread, an invitation and set of instructions. It invites the beginning of a relationship with God and then provides instructions on how to deepen that relationship, and all the blessings that flow therefrom.

You obviously did not read this or look at the context of the quoted verse.

The Spirit speaks to the heart, bowels, id or whatever you call the real you. but without specific revelation of Himself there is no salvation. In times past God revealed Himself through Apostles, Prophets and Himself, but now through the Bible.[/QUOTE]

1 Corinthians 13:10 | View whole chapter | See verse in context
But when that which is perfect is come, then that which is in part shall be done away.

A, if you think that calling a believer in Jesus Christ a bibliolater then you must have no problem with the N word.

I did not say that it offended me only that I think it is always meant to be offensive.

 

[printcraft]

Cross posting............. get it?

I learned on INGO that Christianity has caused just as much destruction as islam.

 

[ATM]

Alpha and Omega. I suspect God is immune from paradox

Well, since it's a conundrum and not a paradox, I'll just say OK, I suspect the same.

 

[JettaKnight]

A, if you think that calling a believer in Jesus Christ a bibliolater then you must have no problem with the N word.

I did not say that it offended me only that I think it is always meant to be offensive.

Nazarene?

 

[ATM]

...A, if you think that calling a believer in Jesus Christ a bibliolater then you must have no problem with the N word.

I did not say that it offended me only that I think it is always meant to be offensive.

Did you read my link that quickly? Please restrain your hasty assumptions, they may not have a correct basis.

You may find the analogy at the conclusion to be worthy of the whole read.