I somewhat disagree with this.
Science "proves" things by observations, including effects.
The effects of beauty and love can both be observed.
Observing is a choice.
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CIVIL RELIGIOUS DISCUSSION: All things Christianity
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Observing is a choice.
okay. I stayed out of this thread, but....
"Love can not be proved."
Yes.
It can.
Every time someone sacrifices himself/herself for a loved one, it is proved. It goes against normal "laws".
To end one's life, so that another might live... why?
LOVE
"Love can not be proved."
Yes.
It can.
Every time someone sacrifices himself/herself for a loved one, it is proved. It goes against normal "laws".
To end one's life, so that another might live... why?
LOVE
Last edited:
Would you blame the sun for cloudy days?
Would you blame darkness on the source of light?
Not needed. Such a thread would have no beginning without this one.
Would you curse the darkness rather than light a candle
Cursing the darkness is far easier, much cheaper - I recognize the temptation to do so.
John the Baptist or Forerunner
Some thoughts and meditations. See what you can agree with and or learn from, or, in other words, I meditated on something new and perhaps insignificant in my Bible readings this week and wanted to share for input from you.
Every year, for the Orthodox Church, we celebrate 12 great feasts several other feasts and of course Easter (Pascha). There is a Church calendar that starts on September 1 and the History of Jesus Life on Earth is celebrated with these feasts. One of the major characters in this cycle is John the Baptist. There is even a Church in Indy named after him.
Some feast days that have to do with John the Baptist are
• September 23 - Conception of St. John the Forerunner
• January 7 - The Commemoration of St. John the Forerunner (main feast day, immediately after Epiphany on January 6)
• June 24 - Birth of St. John the Forerunner
• August 29 - The Beheading of St. John the Forerunner
Also, St. John's parents Zechariah and Elisabeth, are commemorated on September 5.
One key point, perhaps trivial, I like to highlight for those who are not familiar with Orthodoxy is that even by following a calendar some things can be taught. For example, look at the dates for the Conception and the Birth of St John. They are 9 months and one day apart. There are 3 births and conceptions celebrated in the Orthodox Church. Mary is the second. Her conception and birthday are celebrated exactly 9 months and 1 day apart. The third is Jesus and his conception and birth are exactly 9 months apart. Even this offers a teachable moment. Both John and Mary were like us, born with fallen humanity but Jesus heals humanity and is born exactly 9 months after His conception. Now why are John and Mary born 1 day off?
Jesus says of John: “Truly, I say to you, among those born of women there has not arisen anyone greater than John the Baptist; yet he who is least in the kingdom of heaven is greater than he.
Scripture says of Mary through Elizabeth: And she cried out with a loud voice, and said, “Blessed among women are you, and blessed is the fruit of your womb!
The Orthodox Church holds that these two are the greatest representatives of the human race, male and female, to have lived or will ever live, other than Jesus himself. In every Orthodox Church on the iconostasis, or picture screen that separates the altar area from the faithful, there is a large opening in the middle called the royal doors through which only the priest walks from the nave into the altar. To his immediate right of the opening there is depicted Jesus Christ and to the left of the opening, there is Mary. To the left of Jesus we have John the Baptist, also called Forerunner. This order is preserved in every Orthodox Church.
However, if you made it this far, I wanted to focus on what I read January 7. As an aside, another usual pattern in the calendar, is you celebrate the event then you celebrate the memories of the Main characters. For example, Christmas is followed by a day for Mary and also all the infants slaughtered by Herod which in more recent times has also been a day to remember all those slaughtered in abortions.
But my focus was on John the Baptist for this post so, January 6 is the day we celebrate the Baptism of Christ in the Jordan. That is why January 7 is devoted to the rememberance of John the Baptist. What stood out to me was the amount of time this occurrence actually took. Reading through in the past, I knew the details. I knew that Jesus started his earthly ministry with the same words spoken by John the Baptist. I know that in Acts some followers of John the Baptist were still being introduced to Jesus. I also knew that in order for John’s disciples to begin to move towards Jesus, there had to be some time donated to persuasion.
Sometimes my mental movie screen of scripture just zips along like Mark’s narrative where Jesus is Superman and everything is “immediately”. Indeed the scriptures record this event in all 4 gospels. This is important enough that scholars have a word for events that are recorded in all 4 just has they do for events recorded in only one but the terms escape me now.
Matthew, Mark (of course), and Luke do seem to be rather brief but in John there are hints that the interaction was much greater than Jesus walking up to John, being acknowledged and proclaimed by John, being Baptized, then off to be tempted. In John there seems to be evidence that Jesus was there at least two days with the possibility of a few more. Time for John to proclaim Christ to the Crowds and even let Jesus speak to his disciples if you will. On at least two different days John proclaims him the Lamb of God and since John doesn’t specifically record the Baptism, I find it interesting coming from a Church that loves to say things 3 times for emphasis that a third recitation of that line would have occurred at the baptism itself since it is recorded in the other scriptures.
Those are initial thoughts and could be full of errors on John and his interaction with Jesus. Point them out if so. However, my other main inquiry is:
What do you hear preached about John you your traditions? Is there anything about him that stands out to you when you think about his story?
One tidbit of our tradition I like is that John not only was Jesus forerunner here, but even in his death he was the forerunner of those who had went on before him. Even there he prepared the way for Christ!
Some thoughts and meditations. See what you can agree with and or learn from, or, in other words, I meditated on something new and perhaps insignificant in my Bible readings this week and wanted to share for input from you.
Every year, for the Orthodox Church, we celebrate 12 great feasts several other feasts and of course Easter (Pascha). There is a Church calendar that starts on September 1 and the History of Jesus Life on Earth is celebrated with these feasts. One of the major characters in this cycle is John the Baptist. There is even a Church in Indy named after him.
Some feast days that have to do with John the Baptist are
• September 23 - Conception of St. John the Forerunner
• January 7 - The Commemoration of St. John the Forerunner (main feast day, immediately after Epiphany on January 6)
• June 24 - Birth of St. John the Forerunner
• August 29 - The Beheading of St. John the Forerunner
Also, St. John's parents Zechariah and Elisabeth, are commemorated on September 5.
One key point, perhaps trivial, I like to highlight for those who are not familiar with Orthodoxy is that even by following a calendar some things can be taught. For example, look at the dates for the Conception and the Birth of St John. They are 9 months and one day apart. There are 3 births and conceptions celebrated in the Orthodox Church. Mary is the second. Her conception and birthday are celebrated exactly 9 months and 1 day apart. The third is Jesus and his conception and birth are exactly 9 months apart. Even this offers a teachable moment. Both John and Mary were like us, born with fallen humanity but Jesus heals humanity and is born exactly 9 months after His conception. Now why are John and Mary born 1 day off?
Jesus says of John: “Truly, I say to you, among those born of women there has not arisen anyone greater than John the Baptist; yet he who is least in the kingdom of heaven is greater than he.
Scripture says of Mary through Elizabeth: And she cried out with a loud voice, and said, “Blessed among women are you, and blessed is the fruit of your womb!
The Orthodox Church holds that these two are the greatest representatives of the human race, male and female, to have lived or will ever live, other than Jesus himself. In every Orthodox Church on the iconostasis, or picture screen that separates the altar area from the faithful, there is a large opening in the middle called the royal doors through which only the priest walks from the nave into the altar. To his immediate right of the opening there is depicted Jesus Christ and to the left of the opening, there is Mary. To the left of Jesus we have John the Baptist, also called Forerunner. This order is preserved in every Orthodox Church.
However, if you made it this far, I wanted to focus on what I read January 7. As an aside, another usual pattern in the calendar, is you celebrate the event then you celebrate the memories of the Main characters. For example, Christmas is followed by a day for Mary and also all the infants slaughtered by Herod which in more recent times has also been a day to remember all those slaughtered in abortions.
But my focus was on John the Baptist for this post so, January 6 is the day we celebrate the Baptism of Christ in the Jordan. That is why January 7 is devoted to the rememberance of John the Baptist. What stood out to me was the amount of time this occurrence actually took. Reading through in the past, I knew the details. I knew that Jesus started his earthly ministry with the same words spoken by John the Baptist. I know that in Acts some followers of John the Baptist were still being introduced to Jesus. I also knew that in order for John’s disciples to begin to move towards Jesus, there had to be some time donated to persuasion.
Sometimes my mental movie screen of scripture just zips along like Mark’s narrative where Jesus is Superman and everything is “immediately”. Indeed the scriptures record this event in all 4 gospels. This is important enough that scholars have a word for events that are recorded in all 4 just has they do for events recorded in only one but the terms escape me now.
Matthew, Mark (of course), and Luke do seem to be rather brief but in John there are hints that the interaction was much greater than Jesus walking up to John, being acknowledged and proclaimed by John, being Baptized, then off to be tempted. In John there seems to be evidence that Jesus was there at least two days with the possibility of a few more. Time for John to proclaim Christ to the Crowds and even let Jesus speak to his disciples if you will. On at least two different days John proclaims him the Lamb of God and since John doesn’t specifically record the Baptism, I find it interesting coming from a Church that loves to say things 3 times for emphasis that a third recitation of that line would have occurred at the baptism itself since it is recorded in the other scriptures.
Those are initial thoughts and could be full of errors on John and his interaction with Jesus. Point them out if so. However, my other main inquiry is:
What do you hear preached about John you your traditions? Is there anything about him that stands out to you when you think about his story?
One tidbit of our tradition I like is that John not only was Jesus forerunner here, but even in his death he was the forerunner of those who had went on before him. Even there he prepared the way for Christ!
When you start any sentence with, "the Baptist..." you're likely to get something wrong or leave out some group; we're just too diverse.
Ironically, our church has no Sunday evening services, we do have classes on Wednesday though, those being on a diverse set of subjects.
DragonGunner
Grandmaster
John the baptist, the cousin of Jesus who most likely knew him his entire life…..yet, would not follow him….? And as Jesus continued in his ministry healing, raising the dead, miracles, casting out demons…..there was John and his disciples that followed John…..without power. Yet this same John told others he (Jesus) is whom you should go after. The question is why didn't John follow Christ……and then we see John, by his own lack of faith in prison who sent his disciples to question Jesus if he was the Messiah….or do we look for another???? The same man who proclaimed this man the Messiah in the beginning. And Jesus comment to Johns disciples to tell John….what a sad day for John, Jesus then turning to his own disciples and telling them how great John was born into this world, yet, in the Kingdom of God he is the least. John who was so great, and yet would never follow the Lord or become a disciple….so close, so far away. I sometime wonder if John suffered self pity or even jealousy…..for there is no bible or prophesy that said John should decrease while the Lord increased…..I believe the Lord would have us all increase with Him….but John chose a different road, his own, without the power, when there is no reason he could not of been a chief disciple or Apostle. Just my thoughts in reading the scriptures. I wonder how many churches to day are like John the Baptist….still trying to follow as they want to.
LOLWUT?
Are you claiming that John forsake Jesus simply because John didn't physically follow after him?
Are you claiming that imprisonment and death is a sign of lacking faith?
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