CIVIL RELIGIOUS DISCUSSION: All things Christianity

[ATM]

Grace.

 

[Jludo]

Several years ago, some things were happening that I did not understand. My prayer more often became, then, for the Lord to put my feet on the path He intends for me. Things have become much better (glory to Him), and I sometimes have to remind myself to repeat that prayer, but that is still the goal.

If things had gotten worse would blame have fallen on him?

 

[foszoe]

If things had gotten worse would blame have fallen on him?

That assumes that things were what changed.

 

[T.Lex]

If things had gotten worse would blame have fallen on him?

I guess both sides of that equation would've depended on me. Making things worse and assigning blame.

In the context of the multiverse, things probably could've gotten worse. If they had, I don't know what choices I would've made. All I know is what did happen (from my perspective). And, in a sense, what didn't happen.

I had faith. Things got bad. I kept faith. Things got worse. I kept faith. Things got a little better and a lot different. I kept faith. Things got worse. I kept faith. Things got more different and better. I kept faith.

About half of those things I could control or influence. The other half, not much. I didn't lose faith. If I had lost faith, I suspect things would've gotten worse, in several ways. But, I do not know for sure, as that did not happen.

Philosophically, blame and credit are about responsibility. I cannot assign God responsibility. I can only take responsibility for my own actions. God certainly allows certain things to happen that are within His power to change. But that does not make them His responsibility.

 

[Jludo]

I guess both sides of that equation would've depended on me. Making things worse and assigning blame.

In the context of the multiverse, things probably could've gotten worse. If they had, I don't know what choices I would've made. All I know is what did happen (from my perspective). And, in a sense, what didn't happen.

I had faith. Things got bad. I kept faith. Things got worse. I kept faith. Things got a little better and a lot different. I kept faith. Things got worse. I kept faith. Things got more different and better. I kept faith.

About half of those things I could control or influence. The other half, not much. I didn't lose faith. If I had lost faith, I suspect things would've gotten worse, in several ways. But, I do not know for sure, as that did not happen.

Philosophically, blame and credit are about responsibility. I cannot assign God responsibility. I can only take responsibility for my own actions. God certainly allows certain things to happen that are within His power to change. But that does not make them His responsibility.

It just always strikes me that when things go wrong, it's on the individual and when something goes right, God is to praise. I never hear athletes *****ing that God let them down after a loss.

 

[T.Lex]

It just always strikes me that when things go wrong, it's on the individual and when something goes right, God is to praise. I never hear athletes *****ing that God let them down after a loss.

So, a couple thoughts here. Last one first. There was one notable field goal kicker that pointed up (giving glory, presumably) even when he missed. Sure, not every athlete does that kind of thing, but the opportunities are different. After a touchdown, all the cameras are on the guy who scored. After a failed 3rd down conversion, not so much.

When things go "wrong" (let's say "badly"), it isn't necessarily my fault, either. There are wicked people who do things that are wrong. There are good people who make bad decisions that affect others. There are middling people who use bad judgment. There are random things that happen beyond anyone's control (although this is more rare, IMHO). All of those can create situations that are bad for the individual.

Those events can test one's faith and one's response to those events can set a course for the near and middle-future.

 

[GodFearinGunTotin]

It just always strikes me that when things go wrong, it's on the individual and when something goes right, God is to praise. I never hear athletes *****ing that God let them down after a loss.

It's not always about the specific event. Sometimes there's something larger at hand. For example: A few days ago, we probably narrowly missed having a fire at our house. To make a long story short, a receptacle decided to melt down, surrounding drywall was starting to heat up, etc. Did I curse God or blame Him for something not going right? No. I was grateful that I was blessed with the skills and abilities He either lead me to or allowed me to learn that allowed me to mitigate further damage and to repair the receptacle. Did He allow the meltdown to occur? I suppose. Could He have prevented it from occurring? I suppose. But I choose to believe that He blessed us in other ways....not having a fire (did I mention we noticed it right at bed time?) while everyone was asleep and by giving me the tools that I would someday use to benefit my family. And probably a reminder that I possess skills that could benefit others.

 

[foszoe]

Grace.

Is it created or uncreated?

 

[indiucky]

If things had gotten worse would blame have fallen on him?

It's hard to explain jludo....You often post this and it reminds me of something Andrew Sullivan said after the Henryville tornado when he went on an anti Indiana/Red State Christian rant...Something along the lines of "WHERE"S YOUR GOD WHEN HE FLATTENED OUT YOUR STUPID CORNFIELDS AND RIPPED UP YOUR TRAILERS...HUH? WHERE WAS HE THEN YOU BUNCH OF HATEFUL BIGOTS.." Something along those lines..To be fair he took a little heat from the left for that little hissy fit...So let me try to explain what a Christian believes so you no longer pose that question that NO good Atheist (especially Hitchens) would use in a debate because it shows a lack of knowledge of what folks of Faith believe...

Yes...God, being the Creator of all that ever was and all that ever will be is the cause of EVERYTHING that takes place withing this Universe...Good and bad...This is why the phrase "Why God?" is one of the most uttered phrases in the world....The old Gospel song "Further Along" tries to answer this...

"Further along we'll know more about it
Further along we'll understand why..
So cheer up my Brother, come walk in the sunshine
We'll understand it all by and by..."

Joe Walsh of the Eagles once said, "You know you are living your life and all of this crazy *** **** happens and you look to the Heavens and scream out "Why?" and then you get to old age and you look back on all of the travails and it reads like this finely crafted novel.."

So yes jludo...When bad things happen Christians, Muslims, Jews, etc....Understand that it is God's will....We sometimes shake our fist to the Heavens and doubt the plan but we never doubt the Creator has a plan...

I was once like you...I know where you are coming from.....I am trying through my outreach to you to knock a couple of years off your journey...If you believe in history and science and continue to look you will see the evidence of God's hand.....

Keep looking and don't be shocked if you cry a little (it's out of embarrassment and humility, not sadness) when you feel His hand on your shoulder when no one is there...To realize that the Creator (To paraphrase Atheist Carl Sagan) of "All that ever was and all that ever will be" not only KNOWS you, but LOVES you as well, is a very humbling experience....You WILL doubt you are worthy, that's normal...But don't doubt the love...We are His children and all that little tidbit entails...

Free at last....May God Bless you on your path brother...

[video=youtube;2MUxpPAiTfQ]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2MUxpPAiTfQ[/video]

Listen to Susan Tedechi's guitar on this....Beautiful....

[video=youtube;EZN4ngxMhoI]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EZN4ngxMhoI[/video]

 

[ChristianPatriot]

Indiucky do you have any Biblical references for that?

 

[indiucky]

Indiucky do you have any Biblical references for that?

I just figure the Creator of everything has a plan and knows all....

Remember the former things, those of long ago; I am God, and there is no other; I am God, and there is none like me. I make known the end from the beginning, from ancient times, what is still to come. I say: My purpose will stand, and I will do all that I please” (Isaiah 46:9-10).

 

[foszoe]

Indiucky do you have any Biblical references for that?

I don't know if we have the same concern but I too am interested in the answer.

Are you, indiucky asserting God is the cause of evil?

 

[indiucky]

I don't know if we gave the same concern but I too am interested in the answer.

Are you, indiucky asserting God is the cause of evil?

I am asserting that the Creator of the Universe created everything in the Universe....That there is God and everything else followed...I have an autistic daughter. I believe that God has a plan for her and my wife and I are part of it...I don't see tornadoes, autism or bad things that happen as being evil.....

Part of having free will means that evil will exist...I don't think God causes evil but I do believe God gave us free will and that some folks will do evil things with that free will...

I am new to my Faith.....I feel I am called to engage....I do not have anywhere near the biblical knowledge you folks do...I try to see my faith through the eyes of an illiterate 1st century person hearing Christ's words and taking them to heart....I suck at the philosophical and biblical knowledge part but I try to reach out to those who do not believe...I know I am out of my league but my passion gets behind my tongue and ahead of my knowledge....

Sorry if I said something heretical....I mean that...It was not my intent...

 

[foszoe]

I am asserting that the Creator of the Universe created everything in the Universe....That there is God and everything else followed...I have an autistic daughter. I believe that God has a plan for her and my wife and I were part of it...I don't see tornadoes, autism or bad things that happen as being evil.....

Part of having free will means that evil will exist...I don't think God causes evil but I do believe God gave us free will and that some folks will do evil things with that free will...

Ok. Thanks for the clarification

 

[JettaKnight]

Are you Trinitarian?

Is the Holy Spirit included in your prayer life?

If so, how?

Yes, yes, yes.

The Holy Spirit is a person, he can be grieved, he has a personality, he is separate, his functions are connected, yet separate from the Father and the Son.


Most of my prayers to him involve request for guidance and discipline in my life and softening the hearts of non-Christians as that is his primary function.

 

[ATM]

Grace.

Is it created or uncreated?

I AM created, but not finished. I AM becoming finished, in a relational process.

In as much as I choose relation, that connection is created, yet the grace I refer to as partaking in has always been enjoyed.

 

[ATM]

...But don't doubt the love...

Love cannot be proven to exist, can it?

 

[indiucky]

Love cannot be proven to exist, can it?

Love, like beauty, can not be scientifically proven.......

 

[T.Lex]

Love, like beauty, can not be scientifically proven.......

I somewhat disagree with this.

Science "proves" things by observations, including effects.

The effects of beauty and love can both be observed.

 

[historian]

BTW, if you are a theological nerd (Or wish to be one, cough indi cough) this is a great book:

https://smile.amazon.com/Turning-Go...TF8&qid=1483722522&sr=1-7&keywords=conversion

It is pretty deep, and took me most of Christmas break to get through, but is very informative.