CIVIL RELIGIOUS DISCUSSION: All things Christianity

[2A_Tom]

I am Orthodox not Catholic

B b b b uuuut, you said

Point of order

Catholic Church = Orthodox

 

[foszoe]

You should read the post I replied to, if it's not clear after that. Let me know.

Namely. You and Ziggidy continually post to me about the Roman Catholic Church as if I am a member

The Roman Catholic Church came into existence well after the Catholic Church.

It is similar to me telling you over and over that you are a Protestant when you claim Baptists are not Protestant.

B b b b uuuut, you said

 

[foszoe]

You continually demonstrate you know very little about my church.

I get what you are saying, but understand that believing in once saved always is not a game changer to the individual who is saved. In other words that doctrine, whatever you wish to call it will not interfere with one's ability to go through the steps of salvation. Believing in that will not change anything and not believing in that will change anything.

The bible was written for all mankind. God's Holy Spirit is the great teacher or God's word.....why? Because the Holy Spirit is God. We are told the Holy Spirit will keep us in line. A fellowship of believers will collectively keep up strong in our faith - reminding us what is written and how it aligns with God's word.

You say the "danger of Protestantism" - my goodness. You have a church filled with "tradition" that has evolved from man, mandating bizarre and ritualistic activities and sending people to limbo (wherever the heck that is), said Hail Mary's for punishment, worshiping statues, truly believe the wafer is "the" body of Christ......PLEASE - don't lecture me on the problems of the Protestant "movement". I worship God the Father, God the Son and God the Holy Spirit - ONE GOD. His word tells me what I need to do to get to heaven. Anything outside those instructions are man-made, period.

Talking with God, you feel that may be a problem. I, seeking God's word.....going after His heart, wanting Him and I feel he talks to me. Who are you to say He did not? I share (as we do very often) and sometimes I may tell someone, are you sure and why? If it aligns with God, who is anyone to say otherwise.....UNLESS you do not feel God still talks to people.

I think some people look for excuses to minimize protestants in order to raise themselves; or their own faith. To me RCC and such ARE fringe religions but have allot of hope as long as their hope is in Christ and Christ alone. The off the wall unsupported stuff is bad stuff........

 

[2A_Tom]

So if you are not talking about the confessional booth what the heck were you talking about. I am confused by your statement.

The problem root as with most sins lies in the protestant movement doing away with confession as an Avenue for the Grace of God.

I do not know much about orthodox so when you made this statement I supposed that you did it the same as romans.

Please clarify.

 

[foszoe]

So if you are not talking about the confessional booth what the heck were you talking about. I am confused by your statement.



I do not know much about orthodox so when you made this statement I supposed that you did it the same as romans.

Please clarify.

Here is a less than 90 sec introduction which gives a basic understanding of repentance followed by a 15 minute one which will really talk about the differences between what you are envisioning as "confession" and what the Church teaches about repentance. After hearing the question at the beginning, you can skip to about 1:45 of the second one to cut it down to a little over 13.

I use the word repentance because most non Orthodox or Catholics bundle the word "confession" (acknowledgment of the sin) with "repentance" (the turning away from the sin, and "forgiveness" (Christ's forgiveness of sin) into their use of the word confession when talking about the Mystery of Repentance. They then confuse forgiveness with confession and use them as synonyms.

[video=youtube;m7YtTS_8tJc]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=m7YtTS_8tJc[/video]



[video=youtube;QdfPrbjo2oc]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QdfPrbjo2oc[/video]

 

[2A_Tom]

Show me from the Bible. If you cannot show it from Scripture I am not interested in it. I do not post videos.

Do you confess your sins to some man or woman in a religious setting?

1. Yes
2. No

If yes then show me from the Scriptures.

I use the word repentance because most non Orthodox or Catholics bundle the word "confession" (acknowledgment of the sin) with "repentance" (the turning away from the sin, and "forgiveness" (Christ's forgiveness of sin) into their use
of the word confession when talking about the Mystery of Repentance. They then confuse forgiveness with confession and use them as synonyms.
[FONT=Verdana, Arial, Tahoma, Calibri, Geneva, sans-serif]

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[FONT=Verdana, Arial, Tahoma, Calibri, Geneva, sans-serif]For someone that that knows nothing about my beliefs you sure get ticked off when I don't say what you believe correctly.[/FONT]

[FONT=Verdana, Arial, Tahoma, Calibri, Geneva, sans-serif]The thing I see about you is that you memorize a lot of ancient creeds and doctrined of the church and said earlier that the Bible has to line up with the church (Isuppose that means your church) preform a lot of sacraments and keep some form of the law in order to be saved, or continue to be saved.


Yeah, Once Saved by the blood of Jesus Christ and nothing else nothing can take that away from you.[/FONT]

 

[foszoe]

When you sin against a family member do you confess your sin to them?

I do

so

Yes

Do you?
1. Yes
2. No


I don't know what a religious setting is.

Show me from the Bible. If you cannot show it from Scripture I am not interested in it. I do not post videos.

Do you confess your sins to some man or woman in a religious setting?

1. Yes
2. No

If yes then show me from the Scriptures.

 

[foszoe]

When you sin against a family member do you confess your sin to them?

I do

so

Yes

Do you?
1. Yes
2. No


I don't know what a religious setting is.

Forgot the scripture reference...James 5:16 is the one you quoted so I will go with that one.

I'll throw Matthew 5:24 in for good measure.

 

[2A_Tom]

Do you confess your sins to a priest?

Yes

No

 

[foszoe]

Show me from the Bible. If you cannot show it from Scripture I am not interested in it. I do not post videos.

Do you confess your sins to some man or woman in a religious setting?

1. Yes
2. No

If yes then show me from the Scriptures.



For someone that that knows nothing about my beliefs you sure get ticked off when I don't say what you believe correctly.

The thing I see about you is that you memorize a lot of ancient creeds and doctrined of the church and said earlier that the Bible has to line up with the church (Isuppose that means your church) preform a lot of sacraments and keep some form of the law in order to be saved, or continue to be saved.


Yeah, Once Saved by the blood of Jesus Christ and nothing else nothing can take that away from you.

Well

1. I ain't ticked off.
2. How do you know I know nothing about your beliefs? I do read your posts.
3. If someone says you believe something you don't is it ok to correct them?

For the record, in the post you replied to I never said "you" specifically.

 

[foszoe]

Is a priest a person?

Yes

No

Is it biblical to confess your sins to another person?

Yes

No

 

[2A_Tom]

Yes.

Other than Christ no.

 

[foszoe]

I believe it is biblical to confess sins to another person. How do you see Matthew 5:23-24?

Now we are getting somewhere!

Let's go at it this way.

Is it against the Bible to confess your sins to another person? In this case I do mean you. If you confessed (acknowledged) your sins to another person, is that in itself a sin to you?

Yes.

Other than Christ no.

 

[2A_Tom]

Because I want to know what you are talking about.

Do you believe that it is

1. Necessary?
2. Does someone here on earth have authority to absolve you of your sins?

I have no problem with talking to someone that I have offended.
Usually it is better to deal with it between G-d and yourself if you have been offended.

I also have no problem with going to a pastor or more mature Christian in cases where you are struggling with overcoming besetting sins.

 

[foszoe]

I believe doing everything the Bible says I should do is necessary, but nothing I do is sufficient if you are asking is it necessary for my salvation?

Only God can "absolve" sins but I wouldn't use the word absolve (is that a biblical word?) I would use the word forgive, so only God can forgive sins.

Is there a difference in talking to someone that I have offended vs talking to someone I have sinned against? Is there any benefit to doing so?

Finally, your last sentence is exactly what I would talk to a priest about.

Because I want to know what you are talking about.

Do you believe that it is

1. Necessary?
2. Does someone here on earth have authority to absolve you of your sins?

I have no problem with talking to someone that I have offended.
Usually it is better to deal with it between G-d and yourself if you have been offended.

I also have no problem with going to a pastor or more mature Christian in cases where you are struggling with overcoming besetting sins.

 

[2A_Tom]

I used the word because I cannot tell the difference between the sacrament of confession in the roman church. You mentioned that it imparts grace and that sounds the same to me.

Only Jesus/G-d can forgive sins, but I do not need a mediator between Jesus and me. He is my priest. Your priests don't read Hebrews, do they.

Hebrews 10:21 | View whole chapter | See verse in context
And having an high priest over the house of God;

1 Timothy 2:5 | View whole chapter | See verse in context
For there is one God, and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus;

 

[foszoe]

Oh it's the imparting grace you are having difficulty understanding.

Reading your bible imparts grace, praying does, worshipping does, lots of activities impart grace.

"Forgive us our trespasses as we forgive one another". Do your preachers read that? What are you forgiving?

The paralytic...whose faith "saved" him when they lowered him down?

Luke 5:20 "And when he saw their faith, he said unto him, Man, thy sins are forgiven thee."

So by a plain reading, one does not even HAVE to confess their own sin. Do you believe it is necessary to confess your own sins to God to be saved?

John 20:23 "Whose soever sins ye remit, they are remitted unto them; and whose soever sins ye retain, they are retained."

Not sure what your 1 Timothy quote has to do with confessing (acknowledging) sins but I read it. Makes me wonder if you are confusing confessing with mediating?

So what/how does your tradition interpret Luke and John above?

I used the word because I cannot tell the difference between the sacrament of confession in the roman church. You mentioned that it imparts grace and that sounds the same to me.

Only Jesus/G-d can forgive sins, but I do not need a mediator between Jesus and me. He is my priest. Your priests don't read Hebrews, do they.

Hebrews 10:21 | View whole chapter | See verse in context
And having an high priest over the house of God;

1 Timothy 2:5 | View whole chapter | See verse in context
For there is one God, and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus;

 

[foszoe]

Maybe I have (or someone else has) but I don't remember, so I will ask

I believe we all agree on some issues:

The Bible is God's Inspired Book for all mankind
Jesus born of a virgin.
Jesus God is God in the flesh
Jesus died for our sins
Jesus rose on the 3rd day
Jesus ascended into heaven and is with God
If we accept Jesus as Lord, place our faith in Him and confess our sins to Jesus and repent of our ways, we will be saved.

This is as basic as it gets......do you believe there is more? Less?

Remove the doctrines and the frills. Someone is dying on the street and asks you, what must I do, please help me.

What do you say?

Flip that question on it's head.

If the person is not dying is what they must do any different?

Why or why not?

 

[foszoe]

Here are some excerpts from my daily prayers. I am not certain I got every reference to forgiveness but I did my best. I wouldn't pray this daily if I didn't believe it and I certainly am not with a priest everyday and I certainly can not understand how someone would glean from these prayers (from an Orthodox prayer book) that I believe a man forgives sins IF forgiveness is equated with escaping eternal damnation which is what most Protestants equate forgiveness to.

O Heavenly King, O Comforter, the Spirit of Truth, who are in all places and fill all things, the treasury of good things and the giver of life: Come and abide in us, cleanse us from every stain, and save our souls, O Good One.

O Most Holy Trinity, have mercy on us. O Lord, cleanse us from our sins. O Master, pardon our transgressions. O Holy One, visit and heal our infirmities, for Your Name's sake.

Our Father, who are in heaven, hallowed be Your Name. Your Kingdom come. Your will be done, on earth as it is in heaven. Give us this day our daily bread; and forgive us our trespasses, as we forgive those who trespass against us; and lead us not into temptation, but deliver us from the evil one.

O eternal God, King of all creation, who have kept me safe to attain to this hour, forgive me the sins which I have committed this day in thought, word, and deed. And cleanse, O Lord, my humble soul from every stain of flesh and spirit. Grant me, O Lord, to pass this night in peace, to rise from my bed, and to please Your Holy Name all the days of my life, and to vanquish the enemies, both corporeal and incorporeal, that contend against me. Deliver me, O Lord, from the vain thoughts that stain me, and from evil desires. For Thine is the Kingdom, and the power, and the glory, of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Spirit, now and ever, and unto ages of ages. Amen.


Now that the day has ended, I thank You,Lord, and ask that the evening and the night be sinless. Grant this to me, O Savior, and save me.


Glory to the Father, and the Son and the Holy Spirit.


Now that the day has passed, I glorify You, O Master, and I ask that the evening and the night be without offence. Grant this to me, O Savior, and save me.


Now and forever and to the ages of ages. Amen.


Now that the day has run it's course, I praise you, O Holy One, and I ask that the evening and the night be undisturbed, Grant this to me, O Savior, and save me.

Save, O Lord, and have mercy upon my spiritual father (name) and by his holy prayers forgive me my transgressions.

O Angel of Christ, my holy Guardian, and protector of my soul and body, forgive me all which I have committed this day, and deliver me from every wickedness of my enemy, that I may not anger my God by any sin. But pray for me, a sinful and unworthy servant, that thou mayest declare me worthy of the goodness and mercy of the All-Holy Trinity, and the Mother of my Lord Jesus Christ and of all the Saints. Amen.

 

[foszoe]

Only Jesus/G-d can forgive sins.

Your tradition must understand these verses differently. Perhaps debts aren't sins? The same with trespasses? having something against someone? forgiving what to be forgiven?

The one's in bold might be a little harder since they actually use the word sin


Matthew 6:12 (NKJV): 12And forgive us our debts,As we forgive our debtors.

Matthew 6:14–15 (NKJV): 14 “For if you forgive men their trespasses, your heavenly Father will also forgive you. 15 But if you do not forgive men their trespasses, neither will your Father forgive your trespasses.

Matthew 18:21 (NKJV): 21 Then Peter came to Him and said, “Lord, how often shall my brother sin against me, and I forgive him? Up to seven times?”

Mark 11:25 (NKJV): 25 “And whenever you stand praying, if you have anything against anyone, forgive him, that your Father in heaven may also forgive you your trespasses.

Luke 6:37 (NKJV): 37 “Judge not, and you shall not be judged. Condemn not, and you shall not be condemned. Forgive, and you will be forgiven.

Luke 17:3 (NKJV): 3 Take heed to yourselves. If your brother sins against you, rebuke him; and if he repents, forgive him.
Luke 17:4 (NKJV): 4 And if he sins against you seven times in a day, and seven times in a day returns to you, saying, ‘I repent,’ you shall forgive him.”

Colossians 3:13 (NKJV): 13 bearing with one another, and forgiving one another, if anyone has a complaint against another; even as Christ forgave you, so you also must do.

James 5:15 (NKJV): 15 And the prayer of faith will save the sick, and the Lord will raise him up. And if he has committed sins, he will be forgiven.