CIVIL RELIGIOUS DISCUSSION: All things Christianity

[foszoe]

An excellent article on Orthodox and Evangelical Conversions.

Fr Peter Guilquist is now deceased but is believed by many to be perhaps a Saint. In Orthodoxy, we embrace death and do not hide it. You are encouraged to kiss the corpse as a reminder to you that death comes to us all. It is the wages of sin. My wife kissed his corpse and told me she felt he was a saint in that moment.

He was the pastor at the Orthodox in Bloomington which is now pastored by his son.

The author is Jewish and related to Fr Peter that it was the first experience he had in any Christian church where he felt a connection to his Jewish faith. Which isn't surprising to me

Almost all major Jewish Holidays are Feast Days in the Orthodox Church. Except Yom Kippur of course.

Circumcision is Baptism, Biblical.
Booths is Transfiguration, Biblical.
Passover is Pascha, Biblical.

etc.


newrepublic.com/article/63882/the-iconoclasts

 

[T.Lex]

https://www.wthr.com/article/roncal...l-threatened-fire-her-over-sexual-orientation

So this is now public. There have been rumblings about it for some time in certain circles.

In this, the Christianity thread, I'm curious what people think of the situation. TL;DR - lesbian guidance counselor at a Catholic high school, Roncalli, marries her female partner of 20+ years, discloses it to the school, who report it up the bureaucracy, which then dictates that the employee can either resign or not have her contract renewed at the end of the year. (There were a couple other options, but those are the more important IMHO.)

Interested in what those here think would be the appropriate implementation of Christ's teachings.

 

[hoosierdoc]

Those living in open unrepentant sin should not have places of authority in the church. I think that’s pretty clear

Did she disclose it? I read that someone went and found her marriage license and then brought it to the attention of the school.

 

[T.Lex]

Those living in open unrepentant sin should not have places of authority in the church. I think that’s pretty clear

Fair enough.

The high school involved also employs non-Catholics. In fact, I think every Indy-area Catholic school (even the Jesuit one) employs people who are non-Catholics. Does that change things at all for you?

 

[JettaKnight]

Fair enough.

The high school involved also employs non-Catholics. In fact, I think every Indy-area Catholic school (even the Jesuit one) employs people who are non-Catholics. Does that change things at all for you?

Non-Christians or just Non-Catholics?

I suppose there's a third option for the counselor: annul the marriage, separate, and repent.

I'm going to assume they cleared this decision with their lawyers.

 

[T.Lex]

Non-Christians or just Non-Catholics?

I suppose there's a third option for the counselor: annul the marriage, separate, and repent.

I'm going to assume they cleared this decision with their lawyers.

Hmmm... as to the first question, I'll speculate that there are non-Christians (or at least 1) at every area Catholic high school. The couple I am familiar with, I'm comfortable saying that. The others, it is more of an informed WAG.

Yes, that was one of the options.

I'm confident the lawyers cleared it. The PR people, not so much. (IMHO, that's the way that hierarchy should be all the time, but I digress.)

 

[hoosierdoc]

Fair enough.

The high school involved also employs non-Catholics. In fact, I think every Indy-area Catholic school (even the Jesuit one) employs people who are non-Catholics. Does that change things at all for you?

Employee status doesn’t matter. Employee job description to me does.

 

[T.Lex]

Employee status doesn’t matter. Employee job description to me does.

Fair.

Does it make any difference to you that she was a valued guidance counselor, who did a good job for students for 15+ years, while keeping her unrepentant sin hidden? (Her committed relationship apparently pre-dates her hiring by the high school.)

I have no information on the number of Catholic school employees who have prior, non-annulled divorces; extra marital affairs; unmarried co-habitation arrangements; are openly gluttonous; sinfully prideful; and/or otherwise have logs in their own eyes.

 

[JettaKnight]

Fair.

Does it make any difference to you that she was a valued guidance counselor, who did a good job for students for 15+ years, while keeping her unrepentant sin hidden? (Her committed relationship apparently pre-dates her hiring by the high school.)

I have no information on the number of Catholic school employees who have prior, non-annulled divorces; extra marital affairs; unmarried co-habitation arrangements; are openly gluttonous; sinfully prideful; and/or otherwise have logs in their own eyes.

Let's face it: this issue is a litmus test.

Battle lines have been drawn.

 

[GLOCKMAN23C]

https://www.wthr.com/article/roncal...l-threatened-fire-her-over-sexual-orientation

So this is now public. There have been rumblings about it for some time in certain circles.

In this, the Christianity thread, I'm curious what people think of the situation. TL;DR - lesbian guidance counselor at a Catholic high school, Roncalli, marries her female partner of 20+ years, discloses it to the school, who report it up the bureaucracy, which then dictates that the employee can either resign or not have her contract renewed at the end of the year. (There were a couple other options, but those are the more important IMHO.)

Interested in what those here think would be the appropriate implementation of Christ's teachings.

I'm curious as to what circles these are? I know this is not the first gay person that has been employed by Roncalli, and probably not the first one forced out. This is however the first one with much fanfare.

 

[foszoe]

Her committed relationship apparently pre-dates her hiring by the high school.

That piece of information cemented my answer.

 

[Ziggidy]

Fair enough.

The high school involved also employs non-Catholics. In fact, I think every Indy-area Catholic school (even the Jesuit one) employs people who are non-Catholics. Does that change things at all for you?

Because a person is not catholic does not mean they are living in sin.

As an employee, she is a representative of that church. She is being deceptive to the church and others.

 

[T.Lex]

I'm curious as to what circles these are? I know this is not the first gay person that has been employed by Roncalli, and probably not the first one forced out. This is however the first one with much fanfare.

Northside Catholic circles. (These circles are old, dusty, but still in pretty good shape.) I believe there is a connection between this Roncalli employee and at least one of the parishes up here.

Regardless of the past actions in this philosophical area, our Pope has now articulated a certain... acceptance of certain open sins. This, along with the Theology of the Body doctrinal observations, have perhaps created a new paradigm for US dioceses in particular to re-evaluate past actions.

That's re-evaluate; that does not mean reject.

I'm struggling with the balance here. From what I understand - from a distance, anecdotally - the Roncalli employee had no "other" issues. That is, absent this disclosure, her employment would not be in jeopardy. But, there is no doubt that she is openly unrepentant about it.

 

[Ziggidy]

Regardless of the past actions in this philosophical area, our Pope has now articulated a certain... acceptance of certain open sins. This, along with the Theology of the Body doctrinal observations, have perhaps created a new paradigm for US dioceses in particular to re-evaluate past actions.

That's re-evaluate; that does not mean reject.

I'm struggling with the balance here. From what I understand - from a distance, anecdotally - the Roncalli employee had no "other" issues. That is, absent this disclosure, her employment would not be in jeopardy. But, there is no doubt that she is openly unrepentant about it.

God's word does not change......no one has authority to change it.

 

[T.Lex]

That piece of information cemented my answer.

You, particularly, I am interested in elaboration from. Well, if it is more than 10k words, I'll probably just skim it.

Because a person is not catholic does not mean they are living in sin.

As an employee, she is a representative of that church. She is being deceptive to the church and others.

Actually, now, she is not being deceptive.

As to your first point, the question becomes what a Catholic high school should expect from its employees and whether there is a double standard. It is a sin for Catholics to not go to Sunday mass (or Saturday vigil). But that can't apply to non-Catholics, right?

 

[T.Lex]

God's word does not change......no one has authority to change it.

Indeed.

That's not really the issue. Unless you can point to a verse that says people who are sinners shouldn't be employed.

 

[Ziggidy]

Indeed.

That's not really the issue. Unless you can point to a verse that says people who are sinners shouldn't be employed.

I was referencing your statement (I do not believe I said sinners should not be employed)

Regardless of the past actions in this philosophical area, our Pope has now articulated a certain... acceptance of certain open sins.

 

[ArcadiaGP]

what the bible isn't a "living document" like the constitution?

can we vote for amendments to the bible.

that thing about not coveting property could use a modern take.

 

[T.Lex]

I was referencing your statement (I do not believe I said sinners should not be employed)

Regardless of the past actions in this philosophical area, our Pope has now articulated a certain... acceptance of certain open sins.

Yes... and?

The Word hasn't changed, but... well... every Christian denomination (except maybe Orthodoxy) has changed how the Word is taught and implemented over time.

The non-renewal/firing of this guidance counselor is a function of that implementation. Although I may be misunderstanding your point.

 

[Ziggidy]

Yes... and?

The Word hasn't changed, but... well... every Christian denomination (except maybe Orthodoxy) has changed how the Word is taught and implemented over time.

The non-renewal/firing of this guidance counselor is a function of that implementation. Although I may be misunderstanding your point.

What specific sin(s) does the pope now openly accept, and specifically what does that mean?

Maybe I do not know your point? I read your post as suggesting the pope openly accepts what the Word speaks out against. Can you clarify?

BTW, we are not speaking of every Christian denomination; we are speaking of a catholic church.