CIVIL RELIGIOUS DISCUSSION: All things Christianity

[historian]

Good Grief. I leave to have a kid and you guys are arguing about creation and aliens. AGAIN!!!! AGAIN! Come on. I'm sure this got discussed for infinity.

And PaulF, it is good to see you on here. I've got a book recommendation for you. I'll PM you it.

 

[indiucky]

-So, yeah...sorta. I am a Calvinist Agnostic, lol.

FIFY....

 

[JettaKnight]

Good Grief. I leave to have a kid and you guys are arguing about creation and aliens. AGAIN!!!! AGAIN! Come on. I'm sure this got discussed for infinity.

If the earth is young, it's only been discussed for 6,000 years.

 

[ChristianPatriot]

Calvin is one of the primary reasons I’m atheist!

I think Calvin has the most realistic understanding of the God of Abraham. If Abraham’s God exists everything...every single object or action that ever existed is His will. All of it...from the sublime to the horrific...is due to God’s choices, God’s actions.

That includes all human suffering. If God exists, we suffer because God has willed it. God could choose to extend his grace to every single one of His creations without suffering, without fear, without doubt...but He chooses not to. Even if I believed in such a being, I would not be interested in spending all of eternity worshiping it.

So, yeah...sorta. I am a Calvinist Atheist, lol.

Man. Not sure what Bible you read but that’s not anywhere in mine.

 

[JettaKnight]

Man. Not sure what Bible you read but that’s not anywhere in mine.

Romans 9:21 would be a start.

Paul would be what we refer to as a Superlapsarian and believer of Double Predestination.



CP, I'm not sure if PaulF's views scare you or not. For me, I'm not fully on board, but that theology certainly doesn't dissuade me in my love of God... it might even strengthen it.

 

[ChristianPatriot]

Romans 9:21 would be a start.

Paul would be what we refer to as a Superlapsarian and believer of Double Predestination.



CP, I'm not sure if PaulF's views scare you or not. For me, I'm not fully on board, but that theology certainly doesn't dissuade me in my love of God... it might even strengthen it.

No no not scared. I don’t see predestination in scripture either so

 

[historian]

Oh! For cryin' out loud! Predestination! Is there nothing new in this thread?

I for one want to talk about how God is a prodigal God!

 

[Hoosierdood]

Calvin is one of the primary reasons I’m atheist!

I think Calvin has the most realistic understanding of the God of Abraham. If Abraham’s God exists everything...every single object or action that ever existed is His will. All of it...from the sublime to the horrific...is due to God’s choices, God’s actions.

That includes all human suffering. If God exists, we suffer because God has willed it. God could choose to extend his grace to every single one of His creations without suffering, without fear, without doubt...but He chooses not to. Even if I believed in such a being, I would not be interested in spending all of eternity worshiping it.

So, yeah...sorta. I am a Calvinist Atheist, lol.

I think of Theologians as the religious theoretical physicists. Calvin had a theory based on incomplete data. He formulated that theory, and people today idolize him for it.

I don't think the Bible is complete. I don't think there is any revelation that needs to be added to it, but it also has some gaping holes when it comes to explaining every little thing to us. I also believe that everything that we NEED to know is in the Bible. When it comes to knowing God and what he does, and how he does it... I'm ok with not knowing everything. Calvin and many like him try to make sense out of things that the human mind can never make sense out of. They draw hard and fast conclusions where the Bible is vague. I think that goes too far.

Calvin had some great ideas when it came to God's sovereignty. God absolutely has the ABILITY to control everything. But where I think Calvin got it wrong is the fact that God sets his will aside in many cases to give mankind freedom to choose. This is seen from the very beginning when God gave mankind the choice in the garden.

How does that play out in regards to pain, suffering, fear, etc? Because mankind chose to reject God's perfect paradise, and chose to be "like God" in knowing good vs. evil, their actions had a cascading effect on the rest of us. Paul talks about this in detail in the letter to the Romans. Although God does not WILL bad things to happen, he definitely does ALLOW the consequences of our fallen nature which includes suffering and pain. It is much like a parent who allows their child to experience some pain and distress because they know the lessons learned from that experience will be valuable. God allows pain and suffering because it should draw us to Him and show us our need for Him.

I can only speak to and be dogmatic about the things that are expressly stated in the Bible. I wont speculate beyond them like Calvin did. What I know is that God does not sin and he does not tempt man to sin. Thats on man (free will). God loves us and desires all of us to have a relationship with him. God will lovingly welcome anyone who comes to Him. God wants what is best for us. But since we can't know everything like God can, we often think what is best for us is not what God knows is best for us. I think this is where many begin to doubt God.

 

[breakingcontact]

Didn't want to interrupt the alien talk, but now that we are back to Calvinism (better called the doctrines of grace), I'm back in!

 

[JettaKnight]

I for one want to talk about how God is a prodigal God!

That term is new to me.

 

[JettaKnight]

No no not scared. I don’t see predestination in scripture either so

Yeah... about that... I'll let John MacArthur or the late R.C. Sproul, or Spurgeon or ... show you the myriad places it exist.


If you don't see it where it's literally spelled out, then I'm not sure it's worth discussing.


A little humor to lighten it up:
https://babylonbee.com/news/local-mom-claims-vaccines-caused-sons-calvinism/

 

[ChristianPatriot]

A little humor to lighten it up:
https://babylonbee.com/news/local-mom-claims-vaccines-caused-sons-calvinism/

And I would say, even in the Greek, all still means all.

 

[Hoosierdood]

Yeah... about that... I'll let John MacArthur or the late R.C. Sproul, or Spurgeon or ... show you the myriad places it exist.


If you don't see it where it's literally spelled out, then I'm not sure it's worth discussing.


A little humor to lighten it up:
https://babylonbee.com/news/local-mom-claims-vaccines-caused-sons-calvinism/

And I would say, even in the Greek, all still means all.

Call me crazy, but I’m a firm believer that both can be true at the same time.

.

 

[JettaKnight]

Call me crazy, but I’m a firm believer that both can be true at the same time.

.

I call you "in the majority" rather than crazy.

 

[JettaKnight]

And I would say, even in the Greek, all still means all.

You gotta at least give me something a bit more specific, lest I assume you mean "all" as in universalism, a la Rob Bell.

 

[ChristianPatriot]

Call me crazy, but I’m a firm believer that both can be true at the same time.

.

While I don’t personally believe it, I’m fine if other people do as long as you don’t go full-on hyper-Calvinist and never do any evangelism.

 

[ChristianPatriot]

You gotta at least give me something a bit more specific, lest I assume you mean "all" as in universalism, a la Rob Bell.

John 3:16

1 Tim. 2:5-6

Acts 2:21

John 4:14

Matthew 16:25

Matthew 10:32

I John 2:1-2

Titus 2:11

II Peter 3:9

Acts 10:34

Romans 2:11

I Peter 1:16-17

 

[JettaKnight]

While I don’t personally believe it, I’m fine if other people do as long as you don’t go full-on hyper-Calvinist and never do any evangelism.

https://babylonbee.com/news/calvini...urprised-to-learn-calvinists-dont-evangelize/

 

[historian]

That term is new to me.

Prodigal:

1: spending money or resources freely and recklessly; wastefully extravagant.

2: having or giving something on a lavish scale.

God is very prodigal with us!

 

[ChristianPatriot]

Reckless: without thinking or caring about the consequences of an action. Synonyms: rash, careless, thoughtless, unheeding, hasty.

Doesn’t seem like a very accurate description.