CIVIL RELIGIOUS DISCUSSION: All things Christianity

[JettaKnight]

Talking about things in the Bible that makes you go "hmmmmm'... this one came across my FB feed tonight. What doe say the gang think about this alternative explanation?

What Is The Cup That Jesus Asked The Father To Take Away?

To me, since Jesus is God, He would have known he would make it to the Cross and fulfill God's will. This explanation is hardly any more satisfying than the usual ones mentioned at the start of the article.

Well, that's an interesting interrelation.


I think we need a PaulF test - if I explain a passage like that, will PaulF accuse me of twisting the words?

 

[GodFearinGunTotin]

It's tough to understand and even tougher to explain, the triune nature of God, isn't it?

Jesus is fully God yet fully human. He knew what had to be done yet retained the power to walk away. Being human, he knew what was about to happen would be beyond painful and agonizing and (it could be interpreted to mean) even had moments of doubt. Makes you wonder how can we, as mere humans, fair any better with the tribulations we face? I know the answer. The answer is faith. Faith that God will makes all things right. Even if we don't escape the pain of this world, for those with faith, He will ultimately redeem us and use our suffering for a greater good for His kingdom...as He did with Jesus. But it certainly is hard to remember this sometimes...it is for me anyway.

 

[T.Lex]

Along those same lines, we should acknowledge that the recitation of His agony in Gethsemane could have been more of a "passion play" (pardon the pun) for our benefit, than His. We do not know if He actually doubted; we do know that He recorded his agony as a path for us. If it is nothing more than a presentation for the benefit of all of us who have doubted, providing an example of how to handle those doubts and surrender, then that is still pretty amazing.

 

[PaulF]

Well, that's an interesting interrelation.


I think we need a PaulF test - if I explain a passage like that, will PaulF accuse me of twisting the words?

Hmm. My take:

The question is basically: did Jesus actually sweat blood, or is this description an authorial use of metaphor/simile? I would need to be fluent in the written language of the original written story to begin to have any idea. As it stands I don't read ancient greek, and have no eye for the subtlety of the language in text.

In other words: Did the greek have a way to express the literal "sweating of blood" as opposed to the figurative "sweating so much it falls like spilled blood".

The English translation quoted in the article is clearly simile in modern usage ("and his sweat was like drops of blood falling to the ground."), but I have to refer to the author's intent...was he trying to convey that Jesus was literally sweating blood, but the language limits its clear conveyance? If so, the explanation given in the article is at least plausible in my estimation.

I don't have the knowledge or insight to make an appropriate academic judgement here.

Personally, however...I think you know where I stand.

I think Jesus probably existed. I think he was probably a dedicated servant, a gifted (and possibly radical or controversial) Rabbi, and an astute student of the human condition. I don't think he was literally God incarnate. I think that this passage shows more that Jesus did not have a usable connection to God, (that he was not part of "The Godhead") and that he was really more likely to have been a humble (and exclusively human) servant trying to make sense of God's plan.

 

[ArcadiaGP]

The Baptists are at it again...

 

[foszoe]

The Baptists are at it again...

LOL

 

[Benp]

Being human, he knew what was about to happen would be beyond painful and agonizing and (it could be interpreted to mean) even had moments of doubt.

I would not say that He doubted. He asked God that if there was any way that He could avoid what He was about to endure then please make it so, otherwise He would accept what He needed to do. I wouldn't call that doubt.

 

[T.Lex]

In their defense, the fermentation back then resulted in something without as much alcohol content as what we're used to. Well, that's what I've heard.

I will admit to doing more than my share of testing how much alcohol is in our modern wines....

 

[rvb]

Hmm. My take:

The question is basically: did Jesus actually sweat blood?

sure, why not? He wouldn't be the only one....

https://www.healthline.com/health/hematidrosis#overview1
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3827523/

 

[Benp]

Talking about things in the Bible that makes you go "hmmmmm'... this one came across my FB feed tonight. What doe say the gang think about this alternative explanation?

What Is The Cup That Jesus Asked The Father To Take Away?

To me, since Jesus is God, He would have known he would make it to the Cross and fulfill God's will. This explanation is hardly any more satisfying than the usual ones mentioned at the start of the article.

I think this is a model for what we should do. When we find ourselves in a situation that we would like to avoid we can ask God to get us out of this situation, but we should know that the choice is His, and we may not like God's answer, but through Christ's example we can see that we can petition God to help us.

 

[JettaKnight]

Personally, however...I think you know where I stand.

Yeah, I do, and I sincerely respect you your position. You're one of the good guys to discuss this stuff.

I think Jesus probably existed. I think he was probably a dedicated servant, a gifted (and possibly radical or controversial) Rabbi, and an astute student of the human condition. I don't think he was literally God incarnate. I think that this passage shows more that Jesus did not have a usable connection to God, (that he was not part of "The Godhead") and that he was really more likely to have been a humble (and exclusively human) servant trying to make sense of God's plan.

Careful, you sound like a lot mainline denomination preachers.

 

[JettaKnight]

The Baptists are at it again...

As a Baptist this makes me groan.


It started with sound Biblical doctrine - abstain from drunkenness.

Then it turned legalistic - how can we be sure to abstain from drunkenness? Don't drink at all!

Then the doctrine drove Biblical interpretation - Alcohol is sinful, therefore Jesus didn't make it.


FAIL.

 

[T.Lex]

As a Baptist this makes me groan.


It started with sound Biblical doctrine - abstain from drunkenness.

Then it turned legalistic - how can we be sure to abstain from drunkenness? Don't drink at all!

Then the doctrine drove Biblical interpretation - Alcohol is sinful, therefore Jesus didn't make it.


FAIL.

My friend, I feel your pain....

 

[JettaKnight]

My friend, I feel your pain....

 

[JettaKnight]

This movie looks pretty good.

[video=youtube;axjzInqdzBI]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=axjzInqdzBI[/video]

[video=youtube;2twhIOEDsM4]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2twhIOEDsM4[/video]

 

[GodFearinGunTotin]

As a Baptist this makes me groan.


It started with sound Biblical doctrine - abstain from drunkenness.

Then it turned legalistic - how can we be sure to abstain from drunkenness? Don't drink at all!

Then the doctrine drove Biblical interpretation - Alcohol is sinful, therefore Jesus didn't make it.


FAIL.

Agreed.

 

[historian]

As a Baptist this makes me groan.


It started with sound Biblical doctrine - abstain from drunkenness.

Then it turned legalistic - how can we be sure to abstain from drunkenness? Don't drink at all!

Then the doctrine drove Biblical interpretation - Alcohol is sinful, therefore Jesus didn't make it.


FAIL.

Be ye not drunk with grape juice, but be ye filled with the Holy Spirit.

Grape juice is a mocker and strong drink is raging.

 

[historian]

This movie looks pretty good.

It doesn't have nearly enough about arguing inane points on the internet

 

[foszoe]

Looks like a horror movie! Was Stephen King involved in the script?

This movie looks pretty good.

[video=youtube;axjzInqdzBI]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=axjzInqdzBI[/video]

[video=youtube;2twhIOEDsM4]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2twhIOEDsM4[/video]

 

[foszoe]

When Baptism is really just water, Bread and wine are just food and drink, then wine can easily become grape juice.

As a Baptist this makes me groan.


It started with sound Biblical doctrine - abstain from drunkenness.

Then it turned legalistic - how can we be sure to abstain from drunkenness? Don't drink at all!

Then the doctrine drove Biblical interpretation - Alcohol is sinful, therefore Jesus didn't make it.


FAIL.