Circle Center to "randomly" screen people through metal detecters

[Switch4169]

The next thing you know is TSA posted at every entrance groping all our women, and daugthers.

 

[Faine]

So

If IMPD is going to be profiling customers at Circle Center there is a 100% chance that if I go there I will be carrying. The perceived need to protect civilians by "screening" patrons let's meet know the place is high profile for crime and my safety is not assured, so first I will avoid, but if avoidance fails self protection will prevail.

 

[Hammerhead]

You already answered your question, the Circle Center. You can go with your firearm, but if you are discovered you will be asked to leave. This would be my argument. Assuming I'm discovered carrying a firearm, the "rule" violates state law. One cannot be simply be asked to leave based on the legal carry of a firearm.Assuming you refuse to leave, and you're willing to be a test case, I'll put $500 down on your legal defense fund. And that's an honest offer. I'll even let you have the money before you do it. But if you lose, I'll expect the money back.
Deal?

I would take you up on your offer, if I ever had a reason to visit Circle Center. I don't shop at overpriced shops, and I don't eat at overpriced restaurants. I OC on Simon mall property all the time, when I visit the outlet mall in Taylorsville.

I get why IMPD is pulling this "get tough" campaign, and I applaud them for trying to curb violence, especially teen violence. I know Circle Center doesn't want to be seen as an ugly building overrun by thugs.

I'm merely pointing out the hypocritical (and potentially illegal) "rules" in place. They're not opposed to uniformed citizens carrying against their no weapons policy, and being a city owned property, their "rules" are legally questionable.

It's a VDZ, and that's the problem. Those little hooligans didn't obey the law, let alone the "rules".

 

[printcraft]

............. I know Circle Center doesn't want to be seen as an ugly building overrun by thugs.

Too late.

 

[miguel]

**** Simple Simon, order online.

 

[wally05]

I used to work at the Nordstrom down there as LP... freaking kids would overrun our store as the mall closed. I spent more time grabbing them for vandalism or harassing patrons then I ever did catching shoplifters. I'd escort the females to their cars on Friday/Sat nights because the centre was overrun by the them. MCSD and IMPD always had a huge presence on those nights.

I'm happy to see that they are trying something. But, I have a big problem with officers profiling people to scan them with wands. I carried on simon properties long before I entered LE and I still would down there. But, if someone tried to wand me, I'd say "no thank you, I'm leaving now.

 

[stephen87]

I will now go to Circle Centre and I'll carry concealed from now on. I want to see how good they are at "picking people out."

 

[Hammerhead]

Too late.

I know. I said they didn't want to, not that they weren't.

Sad, really.

Nah, not really.

 

[MikeDVB]

Don't confuse PC with RS. Gangs detectives are looking for bangers. They are not hard to pic out based on colors, tats, etc. Terry requires only RS. When a detectives gets a group of bangers it is reasonable to believe that one or more COULD be armed. A Terry frisk is OK so a wanding will be as well.

Terry would only apply if they were on-duty as an officer and not simply as an employee of Circle Center unless I misunderstand.

I'd probably ask the officer if they were on duty - if yes, I show my LTCH and move on. If no, I would simply refuse their 'selective' search and be on my way.

That is... If I ever wanted to go to Circle Center which I have no desire to do so.

 

[Denny347]

Terry would only apply if they were on-duty as an officer and not simply as an employee of Circle Center unless I misunderstand.

I'd probably ask the officer if they were on duty - if yes, I show my LTCH and move on. If no, I would simply refuse their 'selective' search and be on my way.

That is... If I ever wanted to go to Circle Center which I have no desire to do so.

Even if they are paid by the mall, they are in full police uniform with full LE powers. Powers don't change depending on our duty status. I like that mall, I am not usually there on Sat evenings. Most of the problems don't happen inside the mall but right outside after they are pushed out.

 

[churchmouse]

Perfect example of thugs ruining a decent place...Laf. Square.
Bus line equals end of business as we knew it.

 

[drillsgt]

Being searched to get into a mall, no thanks, suck it IMPD.

 

[cobber]

Even if they are paid by the mall, they are in full police uniform with full LE powers. Powers don't change depending on our duty status. I like that mall, I am not usually there on Sat evenings. Most of the problems don't happen inside the mall but right outside after they are pushed out.

If they're paid by the mall as security, they're not LE. They're agents of the employer and have the same powers the employer would have.

If they're just wandering through the mall off-duty, then they're off-duty LE.

Gotta be one or the other.

Don't confuse PC with RS. Gangs detectives are looking for bangers. They are not hard to pic out based on colors, tats, etc. Terry requires only RS. When a detectives gets a group of bangers it is reasonable to believe that one or more COULD be armed. A Terry frisk is OK so a wanding will be as well.

The Mall doesn't need any RS or PC to wand or search. It's private property and they can require you consent to any kind of search to enter. Whether they have any reason or not.

Kind of like the TSA, but big business instead of big government.

 

[wally05]

If they're paid by the mall as security, they're not LE. They're agents of the employer and have the same powers the employer would have.

If they're just wandering through the mall off-duty, then they're off-duty LE.

Gotta be one or the other.



The Mall doesn't need any RS or PC to wand or search. It's private property and they can require you consent to any kind of search to enter. Whether they have any reason or not.

Kind of like the TSA, but big business instead of big government.

Not necessarily true. If they are in uniform and are sworn, it doesn't matter who is currently giving them money. They still have the power to stop you. It's a reason why hospitals and such hire officers from municipalities with police powers... they have the ability to do that.

 

[Hop]

What would they think about having ~500 long gun armed people enter the mall food court for lunch this Friday.

 

[MikeDVB]

Even if they are paid by the mall, they are in full police uniform with full LE powers. Powers don't change depending on our duty status. I like that mall, I am not usually there on Sat evenings. Most of the problems don't happen inside the mall but right outside after they are pushed out.

But the issue is - are they acting as an agent of the mall, or as an agent of the department when they stop you to 'randomly' check you out.

How could they possibly be both at the same time? I'm not a lawyer but it just feels like there is something wrong with the whole idea/situation.

 

[MadMan66]

Here is what I don't get. I've visited CC several times and on more than one occassion my girls have been stopped and havebeen asked where are your parents? They have been stopped from entering. I'm usually a few feet away. My girls have also been stopped because they don't look their age. I think there are sighs posted with regards to minor being supervised but dont know this as a fact.

I know the feeling about not looking your age. I'm 22, as well as my fiance, but we both look about 16. After our last encounter right outside of Circle Centre (see link below), I would never feel comfortable visiting there without carrying. While I don't plan on returning to Circle Centre, if I got stopped from entering because I was not with a parent, I'll surely never return.

https://www.indianagunowners.com/fo...266853-shooting_downtown_indy_last_night.html

Most of the problems don't happen inside the mall but right outside after they are pushed out.

I agree. From what I understand, it's what happens once the kids are forced to leave. I'm afraid there is no simple fix for this, because if the kids have guns, they'll just stay on the streets outside of the mall.

RTV6 - Police investigate downtown shooting near Circle Centre Mall - Local Story

 

[Denny347]

If they're paid by the mall as security, they're not LE. They're agents of the employer and have the same powers the employer would have.

If they're just wandering through the mall off-duty, then they're off-duty LE.

Gotta be one or the other.

No, I retain 100% LEO powers off-duty. Your OPINION might be that we lose LEO powers working off-duty but we do not. I can wander off-duty in the mall and arrest someone if warranted.

 

[Denny347]

But the issue is - are they acting as an agent of the mall, or as an agent of the department when they stop you to 'randomly' check you out.

How could they possibly be both at the same time? I'm not a lawyer but it just feels like there is something wrong with the whole idea/situation.

They are not "randomly" stopping people. We are looking for gangbangers and once we identify them we have RS for a terry stop/patdown. Wanding is a more efficient method. We know our jobs even if the news doesn't.

 

[ArcadiaGP]

They are not "randomly" stopping people. We are looking for gangbangers and once we identify them we have RS for a terry stop/patdown. Wanding is a more efficient method. We know our jobs even if the news doesn't.

The "randomly" in the title was supposed to be a joke. Implying that they will be profiling, which is hilarious and unfortunate.