Circle Center to "randomly" screen people through metal detecters

[Stschil]

I call BS on whoever said that on WIBC.

A lot of it was said by the IMPD Chief during an interview. I can't remember specific quotes, so I'll paraphrase. **

'We have additional Officers patrolling the entrances'
'The gang task force will be looking for those that fit the profile and possibly wanding them with metal detectors'
'We will be employing special surveillance equipment that we acquired for the Super Bowl'
'We are going to stop this youth violence problem in the City's Crown Jewel, Circle Center'



**I'm not a voice recognition specialist, so I have not proof it was actually the Chief. I only believe it to have been the Chief because he was introduced as such.

 

[MikeDVB]

'We have additional Officers patrolling the entrances'

Good for them .

'The gang task force will be looking for those that fit the profile and possibly wanding them with metal detectors'

Do they not need to articulate PC to selectively wand individuals? If they were doing it to everybody they wouldn't but selectively, I imagine, would require PC?

'We will be employing special surveillance equipment that we acquired for the Super Bowl'

In other words, they'll be trampling on your rights against unreasonable searches 'just because'?

'We are going to stop this youth violence problem in the City's Crown Jewel, Circle Center'

So is it an issue with young people being in the mall, or law abiding citizens with licenses to carry walking around with concealed firearms?

It seems to me that no matter how you slice it, a 'gun' is just the scapegoat.

P.s. Although I quoted you, I'm asking questions in general and not directing them at you.

 

[Stschil]

P.s. Although I quoted you, I'm asking questions in general and not directing them at you.

Basically, They just want to run the kids out of the mall, I believe. Make it very uncomfortable for them to be 'hanging out' there. Plus, there are probably a lot of Hoity Toity Uppity Libs who are [STRIKE]FRIGHTENED[/STRIKE] 'concerned' by such yutes grouping together in the food courts. ;-)

It's seasonal. Cold weather, free IndyGo bus passes because of school. They had the same problems on the canal last fall before it got cool, remember?

 

[hoosierdoc]

This city's crown jewel is not a freaking mall

 

[MikeDVB]

This city's crown jewel is not a freaking mall

I did not know that.

 

[Hammerhead]

Preemption deals with establishing laws related to firearms. They are not trying to pass a law saying you can't carry at CC. Preemption law is irrelevant when there is no law to preempt.

City owned property, "rule" or "policy" prohibiting firearms. Mall rent-a-cops exercising proprietary authority as employees or agents of the city owned property enforcing those "rules" or "policies" in an official capacity.

IC 35-47-11.1-3
Voidance of political subdivision ordinances, measures, enactments, rules, policies, and exercises of proprietary authority
Sec. 3. Any provision of an ordinance, measure, enactment, rule, or policy or exercise of proprietary authority of a political subdivision or of an employee or agent of a political subdivision acting in an official capacity:
(1) enacted or undertaken before, on, or after June 30, 2011; and
(2) that pertains to or affects the matters listed in section 2 of this chapter;
is void.

Seems to me as though the preemption statute applies against those "rules" at Circle Center.

 

[BehindBlueI's]

Seems to me as though the preemption statute applies against those "rules" at Circle Center.

The city isn't making the rule barring firearms. Simon Properties is, and Simon Properties isn't a political subdivision and can make whatever rules they want (barring violation of civil rights, Americans with Disabilities Act, etc).

I understand why you think the way you do, but given the way the law reads I don't think a judge will agree with you if you get locked up for trespass at the mall. No political subdivision is making a rule that says you can't carry, you aren't being arrested for carrying in violation of any rule passed by a political subdivision or its agent, etc.

 

[SideArmed]

It dooms them from the start to a split family and most likely to never seeing their father. Thus when the subject is about getting parents involved, it is a problem when the father is in jail, dead or just gone.

Are you not aware that children from single parent homes are more likely to be involved in crimes?

Statistics on Father Absence : National Fatherhood Initaitive

Dang, i guess I been doin' it all wrong for the last 7 years. I guess I will go ahead and break the news to my son that he is Doomed to end up in a jail cell right next to me. Sad really, It's gonna break his heart.

 

[rooster]

Where does the line between private property rules end and state law begin. Police dont rove around walmart enforcing walmarts policies?

 

[KW730]

Where does the line between private property rules end and state law begin.

This seems to be the question. And it won't be answered until someone is charged with trespassing at circle center and the case is heard in a courtroom.

 

[MikeDVB]

This seems to be the question. And it won't be answered until someone is charged with trespassing at circle center and the case is heard in a courtroom.

If asked to leave by Simon Malls or anybody representing Simon Malls - you'll be trespassing if you refuse regardless of why you were asked to leave.

That being said, we'll still have to see what happens I guess.

 

[public servant]

I only believe it to have been the Chief because he was introduced as such.

The real question is, Was it Chief Hite, or Cee Lo?

 

[Kutnupe14]

Tell me, kind sir, where the public (city owned) and private (Simon owned) property are split, so I may walk with impunity and the protection of law within that building?

If you cannot, then private rules on public property do NOT trump the preemption laws.

35-47-11.1-4(10) makes it very clear that the property must be leased for an event for the rest of 11.1 to not apply. The building is not leased by Simon Properties.

Each individual store would have to decide to allow or not allow firearms, and even then, it's a suggestion and not a law just as if it were any other private or leased property.

Simon cannot enforce their blanket "rule" as they have in the past. I do remember one example here of a person who had left the mall and had already walked through the doors onto the public sidewalk when they were harassed (by IMPD or mall rent-a-cops, I don't remember which) for carrying in the mall.

But please, let's keep the Victim Disarmament Zone in place (even if it violates the law) because apparently it's worked so well that there aren't hoodlums and ignorant gang members running rampant through the property randomly shooting off rounds for some perceived tough-guy macho BS affront to their "manhood". The law abiding citizens carrying their legal firearms in their holsters for their self defense from those same peckerwoods is the problem.

You already answered your question, the Circle Center. You can go with your firearm, but if you are discovered you will be asked to leave. Assuming you refuse to leave, and you're willing to be a test case, I'll put $500 down on your legal defense fund. And that's an honest offer. I'll even let you have the money before you do it. But if you lose, I'll expect the money back.
Deal?

 

[rooster]

If asked to leave by Simon Malls or anybody representing Simon Malls - you'll be trespassing if you refuse regardless of why you were asked to leave.

That being said, we'll still have to see what happens I guess.

Thats a given at any private property. Real question here is why the talk of using police to enforce a business's rules.

Its not illegal to carry a weapon into the mall so why are police searching for weapons and implying that it is?

Officers step up security downtown

 

[printcraft]

wxin TV report stated that they would omly wand those that they had "reasonable suspicion".....

 

[Giddaltti]

Here is what I don't get. I've visited CC several times and on more than one occassion my girls have been stopped and havebeen asked where are your parents? They have been stopped from entering. I'm usually a few feet away. My girls have also been stopped because they don't look their age. I think there are sighs posted with regards to minor being supervised but dont know this as a fact.

 

[churchmouse]

My daughter worked in and around the area mid 2000's. It sucked then. Not so much in the mall but getting to her vehicle got a bit silly at times. She CC's so nothing ever happened to her but after the 4th or 5th idiot encounter she blew that job off.
Any time you have a large concentration of people the idiots will come out and think they can act as they will. That is not what the concept of freedom is based on but is how they see it.
I see this failing when the thugs tender sensibility's are bruised and they cry out in the name of profiling. Do not wear the uniform and announce your intentions at the door

 

[Denny347]

Good for them .
Do they not need to articulate PC to selectively wand individuals? If they were doing it to everybody they wouldn't but selectively, I imagine, would require PC?
In other words, they'll be trampling on your rights against unreasonable searches 'just because'?

Don't confuse PC with RS. Gangs detectives are looking for bangers. They are not hard to pic out based on colors, tats, etc. Terry requires only RS. When a detectives gets a group of bangers it is reasonable to believe that one or more COULD be armed. A Terry frisk is OK so a wanding will be as well.

 

[MrsGungho]

Here is what I don't get. I've visited CC several times and on more than one occassion my girls have been stopped and havebeen asked where are your parents? They have been stopped from entering. I'm usually a few feet away. My girls have also been stopped because they don't look their age. I think there are sighs posted with regards to minor being supervised but dont know this as a fact.

Fact.. Posted at every entrance I have ever gone in there

 

[churchmouse]

Pardon my ignorance I am new to this site. Is it possible these places that put up the "no guns allowed" are required to by their insurance company. Always remember a business's fear. The big "L" Liability.

Welcome...good first post. Keep it up.

Yes, there are liability's involved.