Church Plans Quran Burning on Sept. 11th

[Son of Liberty]

For your premise to be true, it would require that same single God to have two distinct and completely contradictory holy books (for the sake of simplicity) written in his name.

There is no interpretation. It either correct or it is not. Since they hold opposing views, they can't both be correct. Ergo, they cannot both be for the same God.

It would require nothing of the sort.
It would only require that two people interpreted the same instructions or words of god differently.

The way you speak sounds as if you havent read any of either book.
They are similar to each other as it can get, that goes for Jews too.
All are people of the book, some took some things more literal than others

 

[Joe Williams]

and this is why because we do care about people ,these animals do not. soo jj you think its ok for every other religion to trample on my faith cause im not theirs and rape murder lie and cheat as well????.ill stand for my faith , i thinks its wrong to burn any holy book.but i think christians are taken advantage of because of their wanting to help people not opress them.if muslims treated us with respect there would be no issue.plain and simple.

We as Christians can fight for and protect our rights without resorting to KKK tactics.

 

[nawainwright]

Jews, muslims, christians, witnesses, all worship the same God.
Just with different interpertations.
The real difference between them is Jesus, and wether he was God. Or the son of God.

By respecting the Quarn or any other religions holy books and artifacts, you are respecting America, and the American way of life.
You don't have to be an ass to someone elses religion, just because you don't agree with it.

BIG FAIL!! This is not what ANY of these groups teach, only the ignorant believe this line. If Jesus was not the Son of God, then there is no point to Christianity. Muhammed taught that christians were well meaning, but wrong.

 

[Blackhawk2001]

So now you are resorting to "computer yelling"?
I and most of the people on this site, will defend everyones right to burn the American flag, or any other flag or book that exist.
However, like previously stated by someone else, just because you have the right to do something, dosent make it right.

You should follow Sun Tzu's advice and learn to hate your enemy.
It seems to me that you view muslims as the enemy. Correct?

Your hatred of muslims has blinded you from seeing the true goal of osama's 911 attacks.
His wanted exactly whats going on now, an all out hatred and mistrust of muslims, so that we would wage war with them on their turf, where they would attempt to wear us down, and make the cost of war in money blood and sweat, so high that we would give up and they (extremist) can claim victory.

It's not hard to win a war when you cause all the citizens of the cede nation to mistrust one another, there are plenty of muslims, who are very patrotic Americans who love this land, but are under attack by there own brothers and sisters.

Focus on the enemy, not his propaganda, the bait he uses to trap you into fighting a religion, instead of the terrorist.

Did I miss something here? I went through all the posts starting at #1 pg 1 and I didn't see any "computer yelling". Why are you making this accusation on this thread?

 

[NordicHeathenVinlander]

You are right. Jesus would reject Islam, as he would any religion that does not accept Him as our sole Christ and Savior. However, he would not advocate acts of hatred toward them.

Is it hated to burn a book that inspires evil?

Yes, we must currently fight a war against people who happen to be Muslims, but NOT because of their religion. We must fight because they have engaged in a war of conquest, and we have the right and duty to defend ourselves.

WE (colletively) are NOT fighting a war based on religion.

We are collectively acting in defense.

They attacked for multiple reasons, and religion being one of them.

If a mosque engaged in Bible burning, we would have no trouble seeing the hatred and bigotry in the act.

Brother, answer me this, and honestly.

Why is it OK to burn the flag, but not the Koran?

Why is it OK to be Anti-Christian, but not Anti-Muslim?

Many people do not see hatred, and bigotry where it is truly applicable.

I admit, my fault in life is as noted amongst my beloved INGO community. However, no one seems to ever call a cow a cow when it's applying to other people/religions.

This is no different just because the people doing the burning call themselves Christians. They are hindering our commandment to spread Christs word, and that means they are sinning.

I suppose I can certainly agree, that this will do little spread the word of Christ. Good post.

 

[Blackhawk2001]

It would require nothing of the sort.
It would only require that two people interpreted the same instructions or words of god differently.

The way you speak sounds as if you havent read any of either book.
They are similar to each other as it can get, that goes for Jews too.
All are people of the book, some took some things more literal than others

Are you comparing the New Testament and the Koran and saying they're comparable? Granted I've looked at the Cliff's Notes versions of the Koran and I prefer the New International Version of the Bible, but I find no substantial similarities between the two. Philosophically, they go in opposite directions. Historically, they couldn't be different. I've heard that the lip service Mohammed paid to Jesus and His Mother was the influence of the Monophysite Heresy, a view which many Arabs held. That heresy said that Jesus was a prophet and a holy man, but he was not God; that there was no God In Three Persons, as the Christian Church preached. At the time, the Church was persecuting the Monophysites, so they took eagerly to Islam.

 

[jclark]

i could care less if its korans or bibles. its a freaking piece of paper. as long as people arent burning churches down then they arent harming no one else. no one has a problem with businesses making HUGE profits off of marketing and selling copies of the bible, so why care if they get destroyed? people have no problem burning things to do with satan. satan is some peoples religion too isnt he?? these people are just trying to get a rise out of people, and obviously its working.

now if they were rounding up people and forcing them to turn over their koran or bible, then that is wrong.

In a way I agree, In a way I don't
That's kinda like saying that the American flag is just some cloth.
Burn one in front of me and see me get mean real quick.
But, the isn't the koran just words, like Green eggs and ham?
They are not the words of God, they are the words of a false deity.
I'm not a Christian, but isn't this in one of the 10 commandments?

 

[Joe Williams]

snip

Brother, answer me this, and honestly.

Why is it OK to burn the flag, but not the Koran?

Why is it OK to be Anti-Christian, but not Anti-Muslim?
snip.

But, it is not OK. People have the right to do so, and we must defend those rights if we are to be true Americans. We may surely speak out against them, indeed, we must. But we must allow the acts, and defend them if need be.

As I said earlier, these folks have the right to burn the Koran, but it is the wrong thing to do, and it is my duty as a Christian and an American to speak out against it.

 

[Hoosier8]

Jesus endorsed turn the other cheek and he can deliver you and me out of any evil or situation. My God is the same one that rained manna,healed and delivered his people out of the hands of the enemy many times and still does. You and your gun cant save. I pray that you will see that in the end you only create more destruction and bloodshed for yourself and others. Sadly with your mindset it shows the folly of the Crusades and why they failed. They did nothing to advance Christ's message but they did succeed in carrying the Devils message and Islams which is Kill,steal and destroy anyone that is not like you. Prayers sent, brother.

It is interesting that during the Crusades, the battle to recapture Jerusalem from the Muslims, Christians adopted Muslim methods, against Christian teachings, and that is why the Crusades are constantly used against Christians.

Sorry, burning any books is stupid and smacks of the book burnings during Hitler's Germany. Christianity is an Abrahamic religion from which Islam is also derived. Islam is the second largest religion next to Christianity and it is growing. It would behoove people to understand it instead of dismiss it out of hand. There are many Muslims among you that do not follow the tenets of the radical Islamists.

 

[E5RANGER375]

In a way I agree, In a way I don't
That's kinda like saying that the American flag is just some cloth.
Burn one in front of me and see me get mean real quick.
But, the isn't the koran just words, like Green eggs and ham?
They are not the words of God, they are the words of a false deity.
I'm not a Christian, but isn't this in one of the 10 commandments?

im not christian, im not muslim, im not athiest, im just an American. I dont subscribe to religious labels. religion is supposed to teach peace and turning the other cheek, so i cant see people of religion being violent about this, because they are actualy going against their beliefs if they do. and actualy go against their beliefs if they even defend their lives. their jesus stopped his diciples from killing the soldiers who came to take him to certain eventual death, and even healed a soldiers ear that peter? cut off (according to the bible). im not their judge, nor do i wanna be, im just saying this as an example.

the American Army taught me to kill those who threatened my country, they did not teach me to make peace with them. so by me only stomping in their face for burning my countrys flag, im actualy cutting them a break in my eyes.

 

[Fletch]

 

[Bill of Rights]

Two theological & historical experts here, I have questions.


Could you explain the treatment of Christians in Islamic Nations?

Or perhaps Allahs' feeling on Jesus, Christianity or those who do NOT practice Islam?


In Europe, Muslims are raping and murdering Christians for NOT BEING MUSLIMS, Demanding Sheria law, entitlement politic's etc.

I highly think Jesus would reject all aspects of the foundation of Islam, and it's pedophile Founder.

I also think that since Muslims have declared Jihad against the West (Christians) that Christians are obligated by duty to put down the Bible, and pick up the proberbiable sword, and expell all expressions of Muslinsanity from the WESTERN (Christian) lands.

Simple answer: Two wrongs do not make a right. What they do does not give justification to match their tactics. Hammurabi's Law went out of vogue many, many centuries ago.

I don't care what they do. I will not stoop to their level. If you will... well... We obviously have different sets of morals and ethics.

Blessings,
Bill

 

[jclark]

the American Army taught me to kill those who threatened my country, they did not teach me to make peace with them. so by me only stomping in their face for burning my countrys flag, im actualy cutting them a break in my eyes.

Exactly. Those who harm, or threaten to harm our Country and our way of life should be shown no quarter.

 

[Son of Liberty]

Did I miss something here? I went through all the posts starting at #1 pg 1 and I didn't see any "computer yelling". Why are you making this accusation on this thread?

Last post, page 5

 

[Bill of Rights]

Exactly. Those who harm, or threaten to harm our Country and our way of life should be shown no quarter.

I can't argue with this. While that may seem contradictory to my previous post, the difference is that I will not condemn someone to physical injury or death because of his or her religious choices. If he or she poses an actual, credible threat, then deal with the threat, but I cannot and will not demonize someone solely because we know God by different names.

Blessings,
Bill

 

[miguel]

An advocatus diaboli question for all the goody two shoes moral theologians out there: What if we just want to light up a few copies of that book to **** a member of their organization off, rather than doing it as "Christians" in the formal sense of the word? An exercise in psych ops, as it were...

One doesn't have to be an anti-intellectual or terrorist to spend $5 on a book that has no meaning to them, to spray some WD-40 on it, to get a book of matches and post a video of it on youtube for no other reason than to **** some guy in Indonesia or Saudi off, do they?

Granted it's not as subtle as telling an identical twin that his brother is ugly or your neighbor that his father smelled of elderberries -- but it isn't as mean spirited as wrapping freshly cooked pork tenderloins with individual pages torn from it, is it?

[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A8yjNbcKkNY&feature=related]YouTube - French Taunter[/ame]

 

[shibumiseeker]

History is full of people who used legally obtained firearms for violent and evil purposes. I suppose it's only a matter of time before you and I conform to historical precedence?

Now there's a leap. You don't see any big deal with burning books you don't agree with, *shrug* luckily it's a free country sort of. Me, I don't see one whit of difference between folks who would burn books and folks who would try to control the thoughts of others. I doubt you and I would ever see it the same way, so I'll save the condescending eye roll smiley.

 

[NordicHeathenVinlander]

So now you are resorting to "computer yelling"?

And computer laughing..

No I was NOT yelling.

I wanted THAT point to be read and understood; Since it's appearant that its OK to burn one of holiest of symbols, but doom on us, if we burn a book that says.

"Believers, take neither Jews nor Christians for your friends." (Surah 5:51)

"Make war on them until idolatry shall cease and God's religion shall reign supreme." (Surah 8:36-)

"Forbidden to you are...married women, except those you own as slaves." (Surah 4:20-, 24-)

Qur'an (33:50) - "O Prophet! We have made lawful to thee thy wives to whom thou hast paid their dowers; and those (slaves) whom thy right hand possesses out of the prisoners of war whom Allah has assigned to thee" This is a special command that Muhammad handed down to himself, allowing himself virtually unlimited sex. Others are limited to four wives, but may also have sex with an unlimited number of slaves, as the following verse make clear:


Qur'an (23:5-6) - "..who abstain from sex, except with those joined to them in the marriage bond, or (the captives) whom their right hands possess..." This verse allows the slave-owner to have sex with his slaves. See also Qur'an (70:29-30).


Qur'an (4:24) - "And all married women (are forbidden unto you) save those (captives) whom your right hands possess." Even sex with married slaves is permissible.

[ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2t3vfDhPTIk"]YouTube - Child sex normal in Islam and Quran[/ame]

START FROM 2 minutes onward.

I and most of the people on this site, will defend everyones right to burn the American flag, or any other flag or book that exist.

Ha, I disagree. BY obviously, people here have vily attacked me, on unrelated grounds.

People here seem to think it's a RIGHT, a great past time to burn the American flag, but burning the Koran is an act of Hate.

WTF does this ridiculously, hypocritical logic steem from? Communism?

I think it's far more hateful to burn the American flag, a Nation built upon not vice, but goodness.

I think the Koran is especially vile, built upon evil.

However, like previously stated by someone else, just because you have the right to do something, dosent make it right.

So it's right to endorse a Religion that has the above quote?

I hear abunch of people talking crap about Catholic's for the few instances they, but NOT a single person denounces Islam and it's child molesting history.

You should follow Sun Tzu's advice and learn to hate your enemy.
It seems to me that you view muslims as the enemy. Correct?

Muslims, are only an enemy by THEY'RE OWN DESIRE TO WAGE WAR.

Your hatred of muslims has blinded you from seeing the true goal of osama's 911 attacks.

I am reacting to Muslim hatred against the West, Christianity and my heritage.

I cite facts for my beliefs, my opposition cites stupid emotion which have zero bearing in real world affairs.

His wanted exactly whats going on now, an all out hatred and mistrust of muslims, so that we would wage war with them on their turf, where they would attempt to wear us down, and make the cost of war in money blood and sweat, so high that we would give up and they (extremist) can claim victory.

I doubt it. OBL wanted the USA, and West OUT of the M.E.

I propose this is his only agenda.

I expect he understood that the 9/11 attack, and proceeding war would cause flares in hatred for Muslims, but I suspect he also know how ridiculously sackless the West, and WEST ALONE has become.

50-60 years ago, if a 9/11 would have occured, screw hearts and minds, it was Vlad the Impaler time.

Now, so many idiots are so concerned about our enemies feelings, and making sure they are not offended, while they're chopping off OUR heads, torturing us, and doing more oppress Christians than Western people ever could.

It's not hard to win a war when you cause all the citizens of the cede nation to mistrust one another, there are plenty of muslims, who are very patrotic Americans who love this land, but are under attack by there own brothers and sisters.

The Koran specifically states a Muslim will not be a brother to an unbeliever.

If they love America so much, or better yet, the Western Nations like Canada, or any Euro nation, why dont they rightly assimilate?

WHY DO THEY BRING THEY'RE 3rd world culture with them? By that I mean genitile mutilation, killing daughters for adopting Western folk way etc.

You can spew the lunacy with those who might accept that properganda, but I've seen more than enough News to know they dont care about America, other than bringing they're Muslim laws here.

Focus on the enemy, not his propaganda, the bait he uses to trap you into fighting a religion, instead of the terrorist.

Nothing properganda about Islam. Its all real.

Probably properganda to those who lived a sheltered life.

SOL, you are half Black, right?

Can you explain to me why you support a religion which continues to practice Slavery in Africa?

Why you might support this religion which has Arabs at a higher standard than Black Africans?

And Muhammad himself is quite clear about the necessity to obey earthly rulers: “You should listen to and obey your ruler even if he was an Ethiopian (black) slave whose head looks like a raisin.”

And people call me Racist, Evil, Disgusting?

Arab women singers complicit in rape, says Amnesty report


While African women in Darfur were being raped by the Janjaweed militiamen, Arab women stood nearby and sang for joy, according to an Amnesty International report published yesterday. The songs of the Hakama, or the "Janjaweed women" as the refugees call them, encouraged the atrocities committed by the militiamen.


The women singers stirred up racial hatred against black civilians during attacks on villages in Darfur and celebrated the humiliation of their enemies, the human rights group said.

READ MORE

According to an African chief quoted in the report, the singers said:


"The blood of the blacks runs like water, we take their goods and we chase them from our area and our cattle will be in their land. The power of [Sudanese president Omer Hassan] al-Bashir belongs to the Arabs and we will kill you until the end, you blacks, we have killed your God."




The chief said that the Arab women also racially insulted women from the village: "You are gorillas, you are black, and you are badly dressed."




The Janjaweed have abducted women for use as sex slaves, in some cases breaking their limbs to prevent them escaping, as well as carrying out rapes in their home villages, the report said. The militiamen "are happy when they rape. They sing when they rape and they tell us that we are just slaves and that they can do with us how they wish", a 37-year-old victim said.//
Arab women singers complicit in rape | World news | The Guardian

Slavery.
The awful truth is that Arabs ravaged Africa for almost a thousand years before Europeans ever began to export black slaves. In fact, it was the foundation of slave procurement and trading established by the Muslims (usually through Jihad) that enabled the European practice.


Far more Africans were swallowed up in the fourteen hundred years of Islamic slave trading than in the three centuries of European practice. An estimated 17 to 20 million Africans were exported from their native land to the Muslim world, but this isn't the whole story. With a transport survival rate of less than 1 in 3, Dr. John Alembellah Azumah estimates that perhaps 50 to 80 million more died in route.


Here is a quote from an observer in Zanzibar that sheds light on the harsh conditions of Islamic slavery:


"As they filed past, we noticed many chained together by the neck... The women, who were as numerous as the men, carried babies on their backs in addition to a tusk of ivory or other burden on their heads... It is difficult to adequately describe the filthy state of their bodies; in many instances not only scarred by [the whip], but feet and shoulders were a mass of open sores... half-starved ill-treated creatures who, weary and friendless must have longed for death."


The text (quoted from Dr. Azumah's The Legacy of Arab-Islam in Africa) goes on to describe the fate of those who became too ill or too weak to continue the journey - as related by a Muslim "herdsman":


"Spear them at once! For, if we did not, others would pretend they are ill in order to avoid carrying their loads. No! We never leave them alive on the road; they all know this custom."



When asked who carries the ivory when a mother gets too tired to carry both her baby and the ivory, the herdsman replied, "She does! We cannot leave valuable ivory on the road. We spear the child and make her burden lighter."




After Muhammad's companions overthrew the Christians in Egypt shortly after his death, they began demanding slaves from the Nubians to the south. For over 600 years, the black African kingdom was forced to send a tribute of slaves to Cairo on a regular basis.

Again quoting from The Legacy of Arab-Islam in Africa, Dr. Azumah provides several examples of Islam's early attitude toward blackness:

• The hadith in which an Ethiopian woman laments her racial inferiority to Muhammad, who consoles her by saying, "In Paradise, the whiteness of the Ethiopian will be seen over the stretch of a thousand years."
  
• The Muslim Arab and Persian literature which depicts blacks as "stupid, untruthful, vicious, sexually unbridled, ugly and distorted, excessively merry and easily affected by music and drink."
  
• Nasir al-Din Tusi, the famous Muslim scholar said of blacks: "The ape is more capable of being trained than the Negro."
  
• Ibn Khaldun, an early Muslim thinker, writes that blacks are "only humans who are closer to dumb animals than to rational beings."
  
• Classical Islamic law allows a light-skinned Muslim man to marry a black woman, but a black Muslim man is restricted from marrying a light-skinned woman. As the literature of the time put it, "only a whore prefers blacks; the good woman will welcome death rather than being touched by a black man."
  
• Another hadith quotes Muhammad: "Do not bring black into your pedigree."
  

As one might have guessed, the life of slaves in Muslim countries was quick and painful. There is a reason why one doesn't find too many native blacks in Saudi Arabia or Iraq today.


Enslaved men could not bear children because they were often castrated, and the unfortunate Africans as a group did not ultimately survive the brutal treatment.


By contrast, the 400,000 slaves brought to America over the course of 200 years managed to leave the most prosperous group of African people on the planet. You can tell a lot about a people’s quality of life by the things they choose to complain about.


While the life expectancy in some African countries is less than 19, what with disease, abject poverty, starvation and kleptocratic dictators,


African-Americans are actually demanding financial compensation (reparations) for not having to live in those conditions.


Arab enslavement of black Africans continues to this day in the Muslim world, particularly in the Sudan, Niger, and Mauritania.

Slavery would most certainly exist today in the same form that it did for more than a thousand years in the Arab world were it not for the Western Christian-based nations “imposing their values on Muslim lands” by putting an end to it. The horrific situation that we described of slaves in Zanzibar was forcibly suppressed by the Europeans.
TheReligionofPeace - Strange Brew: Islam and Black Pride

Why I still hear so many idiots complaining about Hitler, Jim crow, American slavery, Europeans is only proof positive that ignorance is bliss, but as appearant as it is, it's not a fact.



Hey Son of liberty, could you explain, honestly, do you know squat about Islam? Do any of you really do? I mean, I dont, I cannot profess that I do.

But what I do know, I AM WHOLLY AGAINST.

p.s. funny, for Europeans being so evil, racist and supremacist, they were able to shut down a slave trade/conditions that were far worse than anything a slave ever knew in America.

Why no outcry?


P.S - General smarta** comment - If you are not a slave today,THANK A EUROPEAN CHRISTIAN.

 

[christman]

Wow Nordic. You really can pile the info on when you want to. lol. *Golf clap*

 

[NordicHeathenVinlander]

Wow Nordic. You really can pile the info on when you want to. lol. *Golf clap*

The information is all there...


Why more people are not concerned is crazy to think about. Or how trivel certain aspects of history are treated.


I bet some might think twice before speaking without knowing what they're talking about though LMAO

btw what is a golf clap, brother?