Choosing a "back up" gun

[BehindBlueI's]

Holy crap, a lot of drama about a simple question. Guns fail, and not always in a way that a field malfunction drill will fix. Get a squib round, how are you going to fix that? Spring fails, how are you going to fix that? Its a machine, machines fail. Its why you build redundant systems.

What if you drop it? If its your first violent encounter, and for many of you it will be, you have no idea what the effect on your fine motor skills is going to be.

What if you John Q Crazyguy is standing in line behind you in line at McD's and suddenly jumps on you. I know some of you Supermen have such amazing situational awareness this would never happen to you, but for us mortals it could. Before you know you're in a fight you are on the ground with your main gun is pinned between your body and the ground? What if your the first one hit in an active shooter and it disables your weapon or gun hand?

So, to answer the question, I always carry a backup gun, on or off duty, accessible with my 'off' hand. My backup is a 2" barrel ultralite Taurus .38. I can pocket carry it with no discomfort, I can contact shoot if someone is on top of me and my main gun, and I can make headshots out to 15y with it consistently.

I like the revolver in the BUG role. No worries about pocket lining getting caught in the slide if you fire it through a jacket pocket, no worries about contact shooting if someone's on you, and no worries about slide oil/grease picking up pocket lint and your pistol looking like a dust bunny when you take it out of your pocket at the end of the day.

There is a very real argument to be made about having a BUG that takes the same magazines as your primary. If your primary is out of the fight, you aren't now stuck with a greatly reduced ammo supply. How much you need to worry about that in YOUR intended role is a decision you have to make. I'm comfortable with a 5 shot backup and one reload. Others may not be.

 

[Bubbajms]

I think your consideration should be if you are comfortable with the .380 round or not. Shoot one before you decide, especially in a handgun the size of the LCP - My brother carries an LCP as his secondary and can fire it accurately - my dad, a big tough veteran with years of service as a fireman, hates the little thing.

They're close anymore from the research that I've done, but I (personally) give an edge to the 9mm over the 380 and wouldn't get an LCP based on that alone. There's too many nice 9mm (or 38 special revolvers, for that matter) that are close enough in size to be considered. The difference in price between the LCP and LC9 would be made up in a couple afternoons of shooting for me..

 

[Justin727]

Holy crap, a lot of drama about a simple question. Guns fail, and not always in a way that a field malfunction drill will fix. Get a squib round, how are you going to fix that? Spring fails, how are you going to fix that? Its a machine, machines fail. Its why you build redundant systems.

What if you drop it? If its your first violent encounter, and for many of you it will be, you have no idea what the effect on your fine motor skills is going to be.

What if you John Q Crazyguy is standing in line behind you in line at McD's and suddenly jumps on you. I know some of you Supermen have such amazing situational awareness this would never happen to you, but for us mortals it could. Before you know you're in a fight you are on the ground with your main gun is pinned between your body and the ground? What if your the first one hit in an active shooter and it disables your weapon or gun hand?

Thank you for your resonse and insight!! Also thank you for writing out that scenario. That was exactly what I was getting at and wish I would have maintained my composure last night and typed up something similar!

Just invisioning a possible set up.. I was thinking Glock 19, 23, or 27 on my strong side (left side). I also carry my wallet on my left side. Buy a Ruger LCP and either ankle carry on my right ankle OR carry it in my right rear pocket and employ one of those "wallet" holster they make for the LCP

Thoughts?

 

[Justin727]

I think your consideration should be if you are comfortable with the .380 round or not. Shoot one before you decide, especially in a handgun the size of the LCP - My brother carries an LCP as his secondary and can fire it accurately - my dad, a big tough veteran with years of service as a fireman, hates the little thing.

They're close anymore from the research that I've done, but I (personally) give an edge to the 9mm over the 380 and wouldn't get an LCP based on that alone. There's too many nice 9mm (or 38 special revolvers, for that matter) that are close enough in size to be considered. The difference in price between the LCP and LC9 would be made up in a couple afternoons of shooting for me..

I dont have large hands so I dont think the LCP would be an issue there. But the .380 possibly "not being enought" continues to come up and is a concern of mine.

 

[VERT]

I have been shopping for a new daily carry weapon and am almost burnt out at this point! To change gears in my mind a bit I am looking for advice for what I call a "back up" gun or secondary weapon. To me this weapon would be ankle or pocket carried, used as a second option if your primary weapon failed, malfunctioned, or was somehow taken from you. This weapon could also be of use when you dont want to or cannot carry your usual daily carry weapon.

What do you guys think is an appropriate gun for this application?

This is what works for me. I carry one of these two guns. I personally feel well prepared with either choice.

Glock 23 and Smith & Wesson 642

 

[Bubbajms]

Don't get me wrong, I wouldn't want to be shot with a 380 (or a 22, or a decent BB gun) if I have the choice! I think the 9mm is superior to the 380 (though again, increases in technology narrows the gap all the time) and the 9mm guns aren't that much bigger, so that's what I'd carry. Like VERT, I like the revolver as well..

 

[KoopaKGB]

Most people on here have expressed that they dont believe a .380 is enough. How do you feel regarding that?

Also I would love to pick up a PPK. In fact I just found a pretty good deal on an unused PPKS for 450 bucks!

I've read this whole thread so far and I have a couple things to say.

1.Keep your cool on this forum because the entire thing can be boiled down to folks advice. Take it or leave it. Feel free to argue anything with whoever you want but try to just keep other perspectives in mind so you dont get too frustrated with responses you might not agree with.

2.Keep in mind my is only as valuable as the next guys. LEO, military sniper/SEAL/most awesome gun user ever, chuck norris mall ninja , etc. Anybody can say what they want and claim to be legit.

Now to address your issue, some folks say anything less then a .45 isn't enough gun to carry. I say carry what you can. I myself have carried a .380 LCP with hollow points. Although I've never had to use it outside of a gun range I've got no issues with thinking "is this enough?" You can research caliber wound ballistics all day and come to whatever conclusion you'd like. Maybe you feel that .380 isn't enough. Fine, get a bigger gun then. Maybe the conclusion you come to is that a +P+9mm HP is what you'd like to carry. Heck If a .22lr is what you're comfortable carrying then so be it. Still better then nothing.

So quick and dirty answers to your questions
.380 LCP go for it!
Know it, shoot it, carry it. If one day you have to "upgrade" to a bigger badder caliber then theres always the classifieds to recoup some of your learning curve costs at least.

I wouldn't get the PPKS because for me its weight and size (width) make it less practical to carry then say a LCP.

 

[mvician]

THANK YOU for some TRUE advice.

You're welcome.....internet forums are a great resource, you just need to wade through all the crap to find what you need.

 

[lovemachine]

BUG is great to arm a friend, wife, son/daughter, family member...

Your primary arm may get shot, you lost the use of it.

So can you access your gun with your support hand? A BUG is good to have if yiu can't reach your primary.

 

[Birds Away]

Ny EDC is a CZ 75 Compact, it goes almost everywhere I do. Sometimes, I just have my BUG. It's a Polish Army P64. I often have both. Sometimes I have just one. Carrying your BUG to run up to the gas station for a pop doesn't make you any less committed to carry. As long as you are proficient with it then it doesn't really matter. As for the .380 argument (again). A well placed shot will win the day. Doesn't matter so much what it is but rather can you hit with it.

 

[HavokCycle]

sorry to OP but dude you opened whole can of worms. theres too many people in this world that expect to get in gunfights and carry tac lights, 2 spare mags, a primary knife, and a backup knife, not to mention their primary carry and secondary.

guys, seriously, lets play this out. you remove your weapon. its forcibly taken from you. that means one thing - the attacker didnt have a weapon, and just gained one, which means you werent justified in drawing.

for thoughts sake, say it was knocked into a canal, as was said. youre disarmed. is the attacker, going to wait for you to kneel and draw your BUG? no. hes identified you as a threat now, and will go running, or attack. how long does it take you to kneel and remove your secondary? less time than it takes for an armed BG to charge 2 metres with a knife.

you dont pull your weapon and point it. you pull it and fire it, and you fire until it goes click. if you think confrontations require multiple mag changes and multiple weapons then youve seen too many damn movies.

 

[VERT]

sorry to OP but dude you opened whole can of worms. theres too many people in this world that expect to get in gunfights and carry tac lights, 2 spare mags, a primary knife, and a backup knife, not to mention their primary carry and secondary.

guys, seriously, lets play this out. you remove your weapon. its forcibly taken from you. that means one thing - the attacker didnt have a weapon, and just gained one, which means you werent justified in drawing.

for thoughts sake, say it was knocked into a canal, as was said. youre disarmed. is the attacker, going to wait for you to kneel and draw your BUG? no. hes identified you as a threat now, and will go running, or attack. how long does it take you to kneel and remove your secondary? less time than it takes for an armed BG to charge 2 metres with a knife.

you dont pull your weapon and point it. you pull it and fire it, and you fire until it goes click. if you think confrontations require multiple mag changes and multiple weapons then youve seen too many damn movies.

I do and don't agree with you Havok.

I disagree that just because a person doesn't have a weapon that it would not be justified to use deadly force. Very big topic and too much to get into in this thread.

I do agree that it is difficult to carry a lot of gear. I don't agree that carrying extra gear is a mistake.

I do agree it would be difficult to use a concealed BUG in a dynamic situation.

I don't agree that just because you point a gun it needs to go bang. I do agree that given the very small time that violent encounters occur within that the gun going bang is a distinct possibility.

Personally I only carry one gun, usually a reload of some type, and a good high intensity light. I also carry a utility knife but not a fighting knife. My choice in gun will vary depending on the social environment I am in.

 

[WestSider]

sorry to OP but dude you opened whole can of worms. theres too many people in this world that expect to get in gunfights and carry tac lights, 2 spare mags, a primary knife, and a backup knife, not to mention their primary carry and secondary.

guys, seriously, lets play this out. you remove your weapon. its forcibly taken from you. that means one thing - the attacker didnt have a weapon, and just gained one, which means you werent justified in drawing.

for thoughts sake, say it was knocked into a canal, as was said. youre disarmed. is the attacker, going to wait for you to kneel and draw your BUG? no. hes identified you as a threat now, and will go running, or attack. how long does it take you to kneel and remove your secondary? less time than it takes for an armed BG to charge 2 metres with a knife.

you dont pull your weapon and point it. you pull it and fire it, and you fire until it goes click. if you think confrontations require multiple mag changes and multiple weapons then youve seen too many damn movies.

What's the problem with carrying a back up gun? I don't always carry a BUG but sometimes I do. What I do carry 99% of the time is one gun with a backup mag and a knife. What you are doing is picking situations only where the BUG wouldn't do you any good. What if you were taken hostage by a singe assailant and all he got from you was the primary gun, bet you would be pretty stoked to secretly have your BUG in that situation wouldn't you?

I also fail to see how having a back up mag isn't a benefit when you are dealing with a gun that can malfunction at any given time. This has nothing to do with watching movies.

We can come up with hypotheticals all day but I think if you can carry more firepower you should always do it. Just my

 

[HavokCycle]

What's the problem with carrying a back up gun? I don't always carry a BUG but sometimes I do. What I do carry 99% of the time is one gun with a backup mag and a knife. What you are doing is picking situations only where the BUG wouldn't do you any good. What if you were taken hostage by a singe assailant and all he got from you was the primary gun, bet you would be pretty stoked to secretly have your BUG in that situation wouldn't you?

I also fail to see how having a back up mag isn't a benefit when you are dealing with a gun that can malfunction at any given time. This has nothing to do with watching movies.

We can come up with hypotheticals all day but I think if you can carry more firepower you should always do it. Just my

how were you taken hostage? were you beaned in the back of the head by a ninja that came from under the bridge, that sees it as more profitable to hold you tied to a chair rather for days, rather than gank your wallet at knife point then and there?
and then, after spending days being dehydrated and starving after being kept captive by said ninja, you miraculously free yourself and draw your ankle gun?

 

[iChokePeople]

sorry to OP but dude you opened whole can of worms. theres too many people in this world that expect to get in gunfights and carry tac lights, 2 spare mags, a primary knife, and a backup knife, not to mention their primary carry and secondary.

guys, seriously, lets play this out. you remove your weapon. its forcibly taken from you. that means one thing - the attacker didnt have a weapon, and just gained one, which means you werent justified in drawing.

for thoughts sake, say it was knocked into a canal, as was said. youre disarmed. is the attacker, going to wait for you to kneel and draw your BUG? no. hes identified you as a threat now, and will go running, or attack. how long does it take you to kneel and remove your secondary? less time than it takes for an armed BG to charge 2 metres with a knife.

you dont pull your weapon and point it. you pull it and fire it, and you fire until it goes click. if you think confrontations require multiple mag changes and multiple weapons then youve seen too many damn movies.

Guns malfunction. Sometimes they malfunction in ways that cannot be cleared and turned into a working gun quickly. Some people prefer not to be out of options at that point. Being able to arm a friend is also a nice option. And not everyone carries their bug in a way that it's as difficult or slow to deploy as you make it.

Do what you like, but don't be so quick to assume that you have all of the right answers and those who choose otherwise are living in the movie world. Attend a good class on one-hand manipulation and see if you suddenly see value in a bug. Go to cedartop's close range gunfighting and see if you still think a bug is worthless.

 

[HavokCycle]

i'm not assuming, i'm grounding myself. take my agenda as you like, i'm not directly ****ting on someones choice to go round loaded. i'm speaking on the terms that best suit myself.

the way i see things, if i'm attacked in a way that i choose to draw - its a life threatening situation. if it malfunctions, i can assume i'm dead anyway, because i wouldn't have drawn otherwise. attacker with a knife is faster than me clearing an auto, one handed or with two.

i'm unsure who what or where cedartop is, but if theres a class on practical confrontations i'd love to take it.

 

[WestSider]

how were you taken hostage? were you beaned in the back of the head by a ninja that came from under the bridge, that sees it as more profitable to hold you tied to a chair rather for days, rather than gank your wallet at knife point then and there?
and then, after spending days being dehydrated and starving after being kept captive by said ninja, you miraculously free yourself and draw your ankle gun?

Wow good job completely missing the point of my response. Nevermind, we can agree to disagree. I personally feel better about having a backup mag and/or a BUG, apparently you see no use for it.

 

[iChokePeople]

i'm not assuming, i'm grounding myself. take my agenda as you like, i'm not directly ****ting on someones choice to go round loaded. i'm speaking on the terms that best suit myself.

the way i see things, if i'm attacked in a way that i choose to draw - its a life threatening situation. if it malfunctions, i can assume i'm dead anyway, because i wouldn't have drawn otherwise. attacker with a knife is faster than me clearing an auto, one handed or with two.

i'm unsure who what or where cedartop is, but if theres a class on practical confrontations i'd love to take it.

You give up more easily than some. Me, I'm not ready to quit just because my primary gun takes a dump. I might have people depending on me, and I choose to give them a little better effort than "oops, game over."

Your choice, though.

 

[Tactical Flannel]

Most people on here have expressed that they dont believe a .380 is enough. How do you feel regarding that?

Also I would love to pick up a PPK. In fact I just found a pretty good deal on an unused PPKS for 450 bucks!

In my opinion, .380 is the smallest I will go for a defensive caliber. I believe the current generation of .380 defense ammo, Critical Defense and Duty, and HST to name a couple, are very good. I have faith that if I do my part in shot placement, the bullet will do its job. From the tests I've been a part of, seen and/or read the results of, .380 defense ammo will do whats required within reason. No it may not punch windshields or car doors. But I have every confidence in it to stop a threat.

Stay safe

 

[Exo594]

If it were .380, the only gun I'd use it in would be a Makarov. Nice guns, shame I can't find a 9(x19)mm version.