Can the Republic be saved?

[mydoghasfleas]

The only hope of avoiding a (thing that cannot be mention, and is not wanted nor advocated by me or anyone else in this thread) is for people to start using bold strokes. That gives you a revolution at the voting boths. Mitt Romney is not a bold stroke. As long as people keep making these subtle political moves (think, they move 4 steps toward tyrrany and the voters response is moving it 1 step back) there will be no hope of saving this "alleged" republic.

 

[churchmouse]

Property rights


This. We can not coexist with cancer.


If your plan for saving America is anybody but Obama, you've failed. Refusing to vote for a candidate like Paul because he can't win makes one "pragmatic". Realizing that the majority of the people don't want liberty makes one a coward.

I'm cured. I'm voting Romney.

Property rights....what about them??????????


Lame.....not an answer....another sound bite......please, put some teeth into what you think we should do. You have so much to say, please say it. This is nothing but a 2 word sound bite. Use complete sentences and give us what you think is the answer....please.

 

[.45 Dave]

No, I am not going to give up either and I would change my vote if I could. I am in both your debt for reminding me of my duty as an American citizen and as one whose direct ancestor fought alongside George Washington on the field of battle to establish this country.

[/QUOTE] I would like to join you in this sentiment so far as saying that I have no intention of giving up, I just don't honestly believe that things are going to get better this side of the SHTF. I don't want to see it, but I think I am going to based on my understanding of history. I strongly recommend studying the French revolution of 1789, particularly the events in national government leading up to it. You will find largely the same issues, crises, motives, and personalities forming up a perfect storm that we see coming together now. I would like to see people grasp this and prevent our own repetition of it, but I just don't see it happening, especially when the American people are willing to entrust the nation to the hands of people who declare that one should never let a good crisis go to waste.[/QUOTE]



I agree that we shouldn't give up, but that said, don't anyone misconstrue what I'm saying. We should continue to fight to preserve the Republic peaceably as long as we can. There is still a slim chance that we can turn this around and one or two really good leaders could fire up those who want to protect it. That said, I am still planning for not having that chance or for seeing those people arise.
If that "which must not be named" arises; if it comes down to a time when talking is clearly done, and no further talking will be profitable; then it will be time to take other actions. I am not quite there yet. Perhaps there is still time to teach and communicate the values and intentions of the founding father to those around us.
Nevertheless, let the Republic be preserved or let it die nobly and with honor on the fields where it began.

 

[churchmouse]

It has been stated by those who are far more educated and well read on this subject than myself that we need to clean house from the ground up. The elected officials are only the tip of the iceberg that is ripping the hull open on the republic. All of the branch's establish by the executive branch of Gov. need to go. The dept. of Education, OSHA, EPA on down the line. These are regulatory and serve no real purpose any more. The bureaucrat's that run them only worry about their career's and have no real care or understanding of "we the people"
Without getting these things in line we are not making any ground.

 

[hornadylnl]

Property rights....what about them??????????


Lame.....not an answer....another sound bite......please, put some teeth into what you think we should do. You have so much to say, please say it. This is nothing but a 2 word sound bite. Use complete sentences and give us what you think is the answer....please.

Returning to the constitution would be a great start but we'll end up right back to where we were. We need a constitution and government that is centered on property rights. We cannot dictate to there what they do with their time, money, etc and claim we have liberty. I'm not risking my blood for a neighbor that wants to control me. We can help to eliminate petty tyrants by enforcing property rights. We have the monstrosity of government we do because petty tyrants want it that way. The constitution is great in many respects but it failed to prevent our current mess.

 

[J_Wales]

Returning to the constitution would be a great start but we'll end up right back to where we were. We need a constitution and government that is centered on property rights.

There is much truth in this.

It is worth noting that John Locke originally noted the natural rights of Life, Liberty and Property. Among our Founding Fathers were those that bastardized this to be Life, Liberty, and the pursuit of happiness.

 

[The Bubba Effect]

Returning to the constitution would be a great start but we'll end up right back to where we were. We need a constitution and government that is centered on property rights. We cannot dictate to there what they do with their time, money, etc and claim we have liberty. I'm not risking my blood for a neighbor that wants to control me. We can help to eliminate petty tyrants by enforcing property rights. We have the monstrosity of government we do because petty tyrants want it that way. The constitution is great in many respects but it failed to prevent our current mess.

I think you are right. Property rights are inherent to freedom.

 

[churchmouse]

Returning to the constitution would be a great start but we'll end up right back to where we were. We need a constitution and government that is centered on property rights. We cannot dictate to there what they do with their time, money, etc and claim we have liberty. I'm not risking my blood for a neighbor that wants to control me. We can help to eliminate petty tyrants by enforcing property rights. We have the monstrosity of government we do because petty tyrants want it that way. The constitution is great in many respects but it failed to prevent our current mess.

Now that has some teeth. Keep it coming.

What to do. You will be in this fight far longer than I just by your age (My point from that other thread) so what to do.

 

[Brian S.]

Ayn Rand states that without property rights, no other rights are possible. I agree.

Anywho…

I think that it is silly to state that it CANNOT be saved. Let's not forget that this country arose in the context of a world full of monarchies, empires and tribalism.

People who look to politics to change the country are going to be perpetually frustrated. You don't change things politically. You change them philosophically. Bad politics are the END RESULT of a country dominated by the wrong ideas.

It's the maintaining and teaching of the right ideas that matter. As long as we still have freedom to speak out and educate nothing is lost.

 

[Brian S.]

Returning to the constitution would be a great start but we'll end up right back to where we were. We need a constitution and government that is centered on property rights. We cannot dictate to there what they do with their time, money, etc and claim we have liberty. I'm not risking my blood for a neighbor that wants to control me. We can help to eliminate petty tyrants by enforcing property rights. We have the monstrosity of government we do because petty tyrants want it that way. The constitution is great in many respects but it failed to prevent our current mess.

I've said it here before: No constitution…no matter how well worded, well grounded and concise, can survive a country with the wrong ideas. That's how we got in this mess.

 

[J_Wales]

Some good points Brian S.

 

[MACHINEGUN]

Simple answer.. no, too many greedy self involved corrupt Politicians in DC!

 

[churchmouse]

Simple answer.. no, too many greedy self involved corrupt Politicians in DC!

Clean house......how???

 

[hornadylnl]

We have the government we have because there are enough people that demanded every piece of legislation we have and are unwilling to give up their side of pie.

The taxpayers have given the colts over a billion since they've been in Indy. There is no way a person can justify it in a free market and country but a great many are willing to overlook it due to a perceived benefit to themselves. Substitute the cots with any other government expenditure and wash, rinse, and repeat.

How do we get rid of that mindset? Most people value graft more than liberty. WhO here is willing to privatize all parks, shooting ranges, and hunting grounds? Who here is willing to give up taxpayer funded school sports? The list could go on. Almost every swinging Richard in this country has a piece of welfare they're unwilling to give up.

 

[.45 Dave]

Returning to the constitution would be a great start but we'll end up right back to where we were. We need a constitution and government that is centered on property rights. We cannot dictate to there what they do with their time, money, etc and claim we have liberty. I'm not risking my blood for a neighbor that wants to control me. We can help to eliminate petty tyrants by enforcing property rights. We have the monstrosity of government we do because petty tyrants want it that way. The constitution is great in many respects but it failed to prevent our current mess.

Excellent point!

 

[yellowhousejake]

Blah blah blah blah. What I hear is a bunch of folks defending their decision to do nothing and trying to convince others to do nothing with them. No coward wants to sit on the sidelines alone.

While you wait for the coming fall, have you considered spending just a little bit of your ammo money to mentor a child?

Have you thought if the school doesn't teach history properly that you should spend one of your precious vacation days auditing your local classroom?

Maybe you should save one of your personal days and go to a city council meeting and try to improve your community instead of the 1500 to improve your ammo supply.

Maybe you should do something instead of encouraging others to do nothing.

I for one am tired of pandering to the gun community for fear of hurting feelings. If you are not doing something to improve this country, then you are not much of an American, and folks like you are why we are in the present situation.

If the future outlook is a bad as you think, and you believe it cannot be changed, then shut up and sit down. This country was founded by people of action, and people of action are what we need to save it.

Did the men of the Continental Army refuse to fight in Trenton because they were outnumbered and had to walk through the snow in bare bloodied feet?

Did the men of the 20th Maine throw down their arms and whine when Col Chamberlain told them to pivot on their weak flank and charge, with empty rifles?

Did the sailors of Taffy 3 throw up their hands and say what's the point when Cmdr Copeland told them "This will be a fight against overwhelming odds from which survival cannot be expected. We will do what damage we can."?

No one is asking anyone to fight, if we need to do that then we have failed as citizens because countless men and women have already died so we would not have to. We need Americans who are worthy of the lives that have been given to preserve the liberties we so vainly have squandered. If you are not willing to go quietly, if you think the world is filled with possibilities and not despair, if you are a person of action, then join us, we have a plan. People of action are what we need.

I am done with this thread, I will spend my energies with doers. The rest can pay ten bucks to tour the museum with their grandkids, point to our pictures and say "I didn't think it was possible, but those folks would not give up".

Yellowhousejake
Dave Goodrich

 

[J_Wales]

Though it may at times seem a challange at least as great as that of Lot's, it only takes three percent to save Lady Liberty

Long Live the Sons of Liberty

 

[mydoghasfleas]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ib43Lfdivdw

 

[IndyDave1776]

Blah blah blah blah. What I hear is a bunch of folks defending their decision to do nothing and trying to convince others to do nothing with them. No coward wants to sit on the sidelines alone. How do you justify clairvoyantly ascribing us plans and intentions or the lack thereof. There is a big difference between not believing that something is doable within certain limitations and passively lying down for it.

While you wait for the coming fall, have you considered spending just a little bit of your ammo money to mentor a child? How do you know that we don't?

Have you thought if the school doesn't teach history properly that you should spend one of your precious vacation days auditing your local classroom?In most cases of which I am aware the parent of a child in such a class would be hard pressed to get inside the fortress, let alone anyone else.

Maybe you should save one of your personal days and go to a city council meeting and try to improve your community instead of the 1500 to improve your ammo supply. What is wrong with using the other 48 weeks per year in which the 1500 is not held?

Maybe you should do something instead of encouraging others to do nothing. Again, how does it follow that not believing that something can happen within a narrowly defined framework means that we are doing nothing?

I for one am tired of pandering to the gun community for fear of hurting feelings. If you are not doing something to improve this country, then you are not much of an American, and folks like you are why we are in the present situation. You would give a person the impression that you have an Elijah complex on this (i.e., "I am the only one left [tears].).

If the future outlook is a bad as you think, and you believe it cannot be changed, then shut up and sit down. This country was founded by people of action, and people of action are what we need to save it. **** off! I will say what I have to say. If you don't like it, don't listen. Besides, once again, our forecast, no matter how grim does not imply that we are content to do nothing. Quit assigning us attributes.

Did the men of the Continental Army refuse to fight in Trenton because they were outnumbered and had to walk through the snow in bare bloodied feet?

Did the men of the 20th Maine throw down their arms and whine when Col Chamberlain told them to pivot on their weak flank and charge, with empty rifles?

Did the sailors of Taffy 3 throw up their hands and say what's the point when Cmdr Copeland told them "This will be a fight against overwhelming odds from which survival cannot be expected. We will do what damage we can."?

No one is asking anyone to fight, if we need to do that then we have failed as citizens because countless men and women have already died so we would not have to. That defeat was clinched from the time FDR was allowed to pack the Supreme Court, well before my time.We need Americans who are worthy of the lives that have been given to preserve the liberties we so vainly have squandered. If you are not willing to go quietly, if you think the world is filled with possibilities and not despair, if you are a person of action, then join us, we have a plan. People of action are what we need. What action do you have in mind, or should I assume you left it unsaid for a good reason?

I am done with this thread, I will spend my energies with doers. The rest can pay ten bucks to tour the museum with their grandkids, point to our pictures and say "I didn't think it was possible, but those folks would not give up". How do you know that any of our assessments are driven by giving up rather than as a tool to form our own ideas on how to act effectively in the future. I would hate to think I wasted significant amounts of time an money pissing up a rope when I could have found something effective for the good of myself and those I hold dear.

Yellowhousejake
Dave Goodrich

.

 

[hornadylnl]

Blah blah blah blah. What I hear is a bunch of folks defending their decision to do nothing and trying to convince others to do nothing with them. No coward wants to sit on the sidelines alone.

While you wait for the coming fall, have you considered spending just a little bit of your ammo money to mentor a child?

Have you thought if the school doesn't teach history properly that you should spend one of your precious vacation days auditing your local classroom?

Maybe you should save one of your personal days and go to a city council meeting and try to improve your community instead of the 1500 to improve your ammo supply.

Maybe you should do something instead of encouraging others to do nothing.

I for one am tired of pandering to the gun community for fear of hurting feelings. If you are not doing something to improve this country, then you are not much of an American, and folks like you are why we are in the present situation.

If the future outlook is a bad as you think, and you believe it cannot be changed, then shut up and sit down. This country was founded by people of action, and people of action are what we need to save it.

Did the men of the Continental Army refuse to fight in Trenton because they were outnumbered and had to walk through the snow in bare bloodied feet?

Did the men of the 20th Maine throw down their arms and whine when Col Chamberlain told them to pivot on their weak flank and charge, with empty rifles?

Did the sailors of Taffy 3 throw up their hands and say what's the point when Cmdr Copeland told them "This will be a fight against overwhelming odds from which survival cannot be expected. We will do what damage we can."?

No one is asking anyone to fight, if we need to do that then we have failed as citizens because countless men and women have already died so we would not have to. We need Americans who are worthy of the lives that have been given to preserve the liberties we so vainly have squandered. If you are not willing to go quietly, if you think the world is filled with possibilities and not despair, if you are a person of action, then join us, we have a plan. People of action are what we need.

I am done with this thread, I will spend my energies with doers. The rest can pay ten bucks to tour the museum with their grandkids, point to our pictures and say "I didn't think it was possible, but those folks would not give up".

Yellowhousejake
Dave Goodrich

You have the same beliefs as many INGOers. You like many other like to shout coward at those who disagree with you. Heaven forbid you and others do
A self analysis to see how you may be trying to force tyranny on others. Many love code enforcement, legislating morality, etc. few want to live and let live.