Can an off duty LEO carry a firearm on school property?

[Hayseed_40]

How about these Conundrums for ya...

What if I happen to be the BillyBob Hilljack that has spent 22 years in the Army with over half of that in Active Combat Zones?!
What if I also happen to have been a Ranger Qualified Sniper in the US Army?!
What if I happen to have been a Graduate of the French Foreign Legion De-mining Course?!

There are a LOT of Veterans here in Indiana. Some are quite highly skilled, and most do not want to be LEO...

I am not sure I understand your point. Are you saying that veterans should be allowed to carry on school property because of their skill level with firearms?

 

[jeremy]

I am not sure I understand your point. Are you saying that veterans should be allowed to carry on school property because of their skill level with firearms?

My point is there should not be any place where an American and/or Hoosier should have to worry about whether he is Carrying in an "approved" manner/place regardless of what his title is in life...

I agree with you from a philosophical point. Ultimately, the police (and all government) get their powers from us. But, it seems to me that some of the posters are saying that a non-trained, but licensed to carry individual is the same as a well-trained, experienced LEO. I disagree with that.

I don't think different people have different rights, but we have certainly identified particular people to have (supposedly) the ability to give a higher standard of care. If somebody takes my kid hostage at school, do I care whether Billy Bob HillJack and his brand new gold-plated Desert Eagle takes the kill shot or a State Police SWAT officer who was a former USMC Scout Sniper?

It's the same with any other profession. No one sits here and argues that they are just as capable of performing brain surgery as the docs at the hospital just because they went out and bought all of the equipment.

I've been to public ranges. Frankly, I'd rather some of them never carry their weapons for all of our safety but the 2nd Ammd. doesn't have an IQ or even a common sense requirement.

My whole point is that we entrust certain people to handle certain situations for a reason, that's all. If none of them are around, we have to be able to take care of ourselves. But, we mustn't think that everyone can do it as well as every other person. No one has more rights than others, but it is clear some have more abilities.

 

[HICKMAN]

Exactly. But as you point out someone with a badge has at least minimal training with their weapon, but someone with a LTCH may have none. Therefore the LTCH in itself means somewhat less than a badge in proficiency with a weapon if you have nothing else to go by.

should someone exercising their first amendment right be required to graduate law school?

How about this... fathers, teach your sons how to be men!

When guns were owned and used by all, this wasn't an issue.

 

[lrahm]

Maybe he has know desire to have a Badge and be an LEO...

Think positive, they could give him a tank to drive.

 

[jeremy]

Think positive, they could give him a tank to drive.

Yeah, but would you have rounds for the Main Gun?!
Probably not...

 

[Bill of Rights]

Not really...

LEO and Civilains have been working together on many issues - especially here on INGO (which is the heart of the internut). This is not US vs Them. This is not an issue of LEO being elitists. This is about an unjust law.

I partially agree. It's not about all LEOs being elitists.

I'm a big proponent of training. I think everyone should do it regularly. I do NOT think it should be mandatory and I do NOT think or speak as if someone is less deserving of the right to defend him or herself or others on the basis of whether or not someone has this or doesn't have that training, and that, IMHO, is the difference. If JQ Public is there (or could be there) and armed and this is known, some of these crimes will be deterred and others will be handled before that diamond formation goes down the hallway or is even deployed out.

I can hear the 911 call now: yes, there's been a shooting at Columbine High School. We need two ambulances and an officer to do the report... The shooter is one of the two to go in an ambulance.

I realize that LEOs would still have to respond and clear the building, but by that time, all of us who carry lawfully would be out with our guns back in their holsters.

Sure, this is an ideal situation and those are rare, but can any of the LEOs say that it couldn't go down this way?

Blessings,
Bill

 

[Fargo]

If anyone cares in the slightest about the question posed by the OP, I believe the answer is absolutely yes if the LEO has a LTCH and probably yes even if not. GFSZA explicitly exempts carry permit holders, whether LEO or not.

Without a LTCH, it is a question of first impression but I would ARGUE that it still does not apply.

GFSZA specifically exemps LEO's acting in their official capacity from its strictures. If an off-duty LEO is carrying pursuant to his LE status, it would seem to me that would satisfy the official capacity part of the requirement. Now, if he is a LE who is not permitted to carry off-duty or who only has his powers while on duty, then he could not.

As to Wikipedia's treatise on LEOSA-carrying cops violating GFSZA, last I heard there had never been a case holding that and that was purely a bit of internet lawyers speculation based off a FOP document which never once addressed schools.

Once again, LEOSA officers are carrying based upon their official status as a sworn officer and I don't see how GFSZA applies. Now, most states don't let out-of-state LEO's carry on school grounds so generally LEOSA officers may not carry in/on a public school pursuant to state law which is a permissible regulation under LEOSA. However this is not because of GFSZA and they may carry within the "zone"

That said, there has never to the best of my knowledge been a case defining "official capacity" for GFSZA purposes so it is far from settled law and should be treated as such.

Not legal advice, just my off the top of my head opinion.

Best,

Joe

 

[Kirk Freeman]

If anyone cares in the slightest about the question posed by the OP, I believe the answer is absolutely yes if the LEO has a LTCH and probably yes even if not.

Well, I did answer the OP then the thread when all INGO cat herd style.

Yeahaw, little INGOers, get along little nimble feet:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=m_MaJDK3VNE

 

[jeremy]

Well, I did answer the OP then the thread when all INGO cat herd style.

Not my fault this time...

 

[Hoosierdood]

Not my fault this time...

It's ALWAYS your fault. Even if you weren't there, its still your fault.

 

[japartridge]

should someone exercising their first amendment right be required to graduate law school?

How about this... fathers, teach your [STRIKE]sons[/STRIKE] children how to be men!

When guns were owned and used by all, this wasn't an issue.

FIFY

 

[Fargo]

Well, I did answer the OP then the thread when all INGO cat herd style.

Yeahaw, little INGOers, get along little nimble feet:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=m_MaJDK3VNE

True, but your answer was so buried under cat **** and turds by the time I ran across the thread, I figured I'd at least take a stab at it! Death by a thousand tiny paw-prints.

Best,

Joe

 

[jeremy]

True, but your answer was so buried under cat **** and turds by the time I ran across the thread, I figured I'd at least take a stab at it! Death by a thousand tiny paw-prints.

Best,

Joe

Like you 2 know WTH you are talking about...

 

[Kirk Freeman]

Like you 2 know WTH you are talking about

You are right, I've never owned a cat before.

Oh, btw, your copy of Cat Fancy was delivered to my office again, can you pick it up again?

 

[LCSOSgt11]

Sorry, came in late. My answer, I certainly carry off-duty at a school or just about anywhere else, for that matter.

"Can" or "can't" implies the physical ability or inability to do something.

 

[finity]

Sorry, came in late. My answer, I certainly carry off-duty at a school or just about anywhere else, for that matter.

 

[Fargo]

You are right, I've never owned a cat before.

Me either, unless you consider dispatching the ferals that had overrun the old family farmstead to be "owning"...

Best,

Joe

 

[jaybird_123]

I drive a take home car, am I not suppose to carry when I pick my sone up from school? Food for thought.

That part of the question has been answered on here before. As long as you stay in the vehicle, when picking up your son, it is legal. Leave the vehicle, for any reason, and it becomes illegal. Talking about on scool property here.

 

[lrahm]

That part of the question has been answered on here before. As long as you stay in the vehicle, when picking up your son, it is legal. Leave the vehicle, for any reason, and it becomes illegal. Talking about on scool property here.

Ok same situation however I just got off work and I stopped. Do I take off my gun and uniform?

 

[ATM]

Ok same situation however I just got off work and I stopped. Do I take off my gun and uniform?

I think there are other laws which you may run afoul of if you plan to undress before entering the school.