cameras for cops

[Kutnupe14]

If I am mistaken, please correct me, but wouldn't every single honest police officer want one?

What would be the downside to having one?
(Sincere question)

Depends, if the money is funneled to equip cars with cameras due to public demand vs keep officers, themselves, adequately equipped (ie new vests, firearm exchanges) then certainly the cameras should be a secondary consideration. But, if the money IS there (which in Marion Co it's not), then I don't see the issue.

 

[irishfan]

Depends, if the money is funneled to equip cars with cameras due to public demand vs keep officers, themselves, adequately equipped (ie new vests, firearm exchanges) then certainly the cameras should be a secondary consideration. But, if the money IS there (which in Marion Co it's not), then I don't see the issue.

I agree that equipment needs to be taken care of but it seems odd that firearm exchanges would be an issue. The department makes a deal with a supplier to buy X amount of weapons and they should not be breaking regularly correct? Also, it would seem that if the amount of cars were cut down on by not having take home vehicles then cameras would be much more affordable for the city. There are a lot of ways that money could be better spent but cameras could potentially save millions in a false lawsuit against an officer where camera footage could support the officers side of a story.

 

[rambone]

Equip cameras on the patrolmen with the most amount of complaints first, then work your way through the list.

 

[Kirk Freeman]

Marion County Auditor reports, JUST for 2010, diversion fees of $392,831.00, the check diversions bring in an additional $100,307.00.

That's 164 cameras at the 3K cost for just one year, that's 1,640 cameras over ten (10) years. Assuming 3K is accurate or that a "group buy" cannot be done, that's a bunch of cameras.

It is not a means problem (Marion County is swimming in money), it is a priority problem.

 

[Blue Tile Spook]

They have the funding. They have the technology.

Cameras in cop cars are double edged swords and Marion County LE, especially the Prosecuting Attorney (heck, Curry could write a check tomorrow and put two cameras in every IMPD car with all the diversion money his office is swimming in) does not want them. Marion County LE has a long history of fighting video evidence at every turn, e.g. look at how they and their IPAC allies fought IRE 617.

Yes, yes, yes. IMPD is the devil. We have more money than we know what to do with. We get together and have meetings on what we can waste money on. We even have a room downtown stacked to the ceiling with it and officers can go in once a day and grab a handful.

Phylo, I didn't take Kirk's post in the same way that you did. And, yes, I realize that his comment about "swimming" was hyperbole.

I, personally, would like to see cameras on patrolmen and in the vehicles, used in a way that would protect both patrolmen and citizen from untrue allegations. It would protect the officer from specious allegations of abuse (verbal, physical, etc.) and protect the citizen from the same.

I have worked in a factory that had cameras recording areas everywhere inside and outside the building except for the restrooms. Audio and video. We had a few situations that were he-said-she-said between supervisors and line-workers, and worker-to-worker conflicts, where video had to be reviewed to solve a dispute. While I didn't necessarily like being recorded, I was the only supervisor on 2nd or 3rd shifts, so if something went badly with an employee, I knew that I was covered by what the video would show.

Anecdotally, it seems that the people in charge of disbursements of money can and will find the monies to meet a perceived need when they agree with a project. On this issue, IMO, the prosecutor (Brizzi or the current one, Curry) seems to want to resolve any and all questions in a courtroom, when a recording would be proof before anyone ever stepped foot into a courtroom. Something that would potentially save money and time for both the prosecutor and the defendant.

 

[Kirk Freeman]

We heard the cries of poverty from Marion County LE when the Supreme Court was ruminating on 617 (heck, Marion County even got special rules for them). Oddly we did not hear cries of poverty from say Warren or Fountain County, who carpet their courthouses in $100 bills, about not having the necessary funding to comply with 617.

14 year girls at the mall carry video cameras, pleas of LE poverty should be mocked (especially when LE can raise its own funding).

 

[CSK22]

Marion County Auditor reports, JUST for 2010, diversion fees of $392,831.00, the check diversions bring in an additional $100,307.00.

That's 164 cameras at the 3K cost for just one year, that's 1,640 cameras over ten (10) years. Assuming 3K is accurate or that a "group buy" cannot be done, that's a bunch of cameras.

It is not a means problem (Marion County is swimming in money), it is a priority problem.

DING DING DING

We have a winner

 

[Kutnupe14]

We heard the cries of poverty from Marion County LE when the Supreme Court was ruminating on 617. Oddly we did not hear cries of poverty from say Warren or Fountain County, who carpet their courthouses in $100 bills, about not having the necessary funding to comply with 617.

14 year girls at the mall carry video cameras, pleas of LE poverty should be mocked.

Tell that to half of the Camden, NY police department.

 

[Colt556]

For some reason I thought cameras in police cars was almost standard equipment nowadays. If you watch any of the police chase type reality shows on tv most of the videos come from smaller depts and if they can have them why can a booming metropolis like Indy have them? Seems to me that most officers would want cameras in their vehicles for their own protection and to verify exactly what happened during an interaction. The only cops that wouldn't want them would be the ones with something to hide or not be seen by the public. Seems as if an honest prosecutor would like to have video to back up his cases as well. I'm certain if we were to purchase hundreds of cameras that there would be a significant discount and with the price of electronics falling these days $3k per unit seems pretty high to begin with. The city can find money when it wants to. I can see only good coming from the installation of cameras in patrol cars.

 

[Kutnupe14]

Guys Marion county can't even get air conditoners in schools, pot holes off streets, or keep teachers employed. Surely this isnt news to people that live in the metro area is it?
One of the best equipped PDs I've ever seen is in Starke, FL, and they have a less than 20 man department. Size of the agency means nothing... tax base and city admin. mean everything.

 

[Blue Tile Spook]

Guys Marion county can't even get air conditoners in schools, pot holes off streets, or keep teachers employed. Surely this isnt news to people that live in the metro area is it?

There are several areas that the schools or superintendent would rather spend money than on air conditioning or teachers. Athletics programs usually bring in a nice chunk of money to the schools through booster programs and fundraising to supplement what monies the school dedicates to those programs. No one is supplementing monies for A/C.

Pot holes? When new stretches of road are laid and the existing stretches aren't or can't be maintained, a choice is being made, same as the schools or superintendents above.

My local school system just made upgrades over the summer to their various athletic fields and stadium, yet they were begging for money from the state because they were going to have to lay off teachers. I understand that some budgetary line items can't be switched willy-nilly, but that tells me that my local schools have the wrong priority.

 

[Kirk Freeman]

Tell that to half of the Camden, NY police department.

Do you mean Camden, New Jersey?

 

[Kirk Freeman]

Guys Marion county can't even get air conditoners in schools, pot holes off streets, or keep teachers employed. Surely this isnt news to people that live in the metro area is it?

If Marion County cannot get air conditioners in schools, then it because of the gold-plated flag poles at the admin buildings. E.g., have you seen Ben Davis High School? The Taj Mahal is dying of envy.

The things government controls, schools, roads, the police all have more than enough money. Heck, law enforcement can raise its own money. If schools, roads, or the police want anything then it is up to them to get it.

IMPD cannot certainly afford cameras. It is their priority selection that they do not have them.

 

[Kutnupe14]

Do you mean Camden, New Jersey?

yep, my bad

 

[Kutnupe14]

If Marion County cannot get air conditioners in schools, then it because of the gold-plated flag poles at the admin buildings. E.g., have you seen Ben Davis High School? The Taj Mahal is dying of envy.

The things government controls, schools, roads, the police all have more than enough money. Heck, law enforcement can raise its own money. If schools, roads, or the police want anything then it is up to them to get it.

IMPD cannot certainly afford cameras. It is their priority selection that they do not have them.

You will find very few, if any PDs that operate in the "black." Out of curiosity, how would a PD raise it's own money to support itself?

 

[Kirk Freeman]

Out of curiosity, how would a PD raise it's own money to support itself?

Law enforcement can raise its own money via Indiana law, 33-39-1-8, like they have for decades.

As I posted earlier Marion County law enforcement took in half a million in diversion fees and can take in even more if they didn't want a conviction of every 20 year old watching a band in a bar--Minor in a Tavern, it's a diamond heist, we must have a conviction and community service!

$500,000 will buy a lot of cameras; they just don't want to do it.

 

[Kutnupe14]

Law enforcement can raise its own money via Indiana law, 33-39-1-8, like they have for decades.

As I posted earlier Marion County law enforcement took in half a million in diversion fees and can take in even more if they didn't want a conviction of every 20 year old watching a band in a bar--Minor in a Tavern, it's a diamond heist, we must have a conviction and community service!

$500,000 will buy a lot of cameras; they just don't want to do it.

$500,000 won't even pay for 10 officers. And diversion fees aren't placed in PD coffers. That's the city's money, and the PD, if lucky, will only see a fraction of it.

IMO, it is counter productive for LE agencies to fund themselves. Let the civilians decide the PD's budget with input ad suggestions from the agency. If LE agencies are to start funding themselves, no good can ever come of that.

I can see PD admins now saying:

Admin: "If everybody writes 500 tickets and makes 70 arrests this year, we can afford cameras and increase our salaries $10K" ....

Officers: "Yayyyyyy!"

 

[03mustgt]

We are forbidden to buy them ourselves by Dept general orders. But I plan on buying one of those tiny digital camera that clip onto your uniform for $150. Color video and digital audio.

They work very well and I believe my dept. purchased them for under $100 each.

 

[mcolford]

Kutnupe14: $500,000 won't even pay for 10 officers. And diversion fees aren't placed in PD coffers. That's the city's money, and the PD, if lucky, will only see a fraction of it.

How much does IMPD start off pay wise? if 500k wont pay 10 cops, its at least 50k/year (I know, Im a genius, LOL!).

As far as cameras, year 3k seems a little steep to me. The department here (I believe) has every marked car, and most unmarked with dash cams. I think the only ones without are used in undercover work/watching houses, etc.

I guess I dont understand why IMPD wouldnt want cameras, other than the idea of a dirty cop, which I dont want to ever think of one as one, but there is always a bad apple, unfortunately.

But on the topic of donating cameras... Would it be possible for INGO to purchase the ones a cop carries on their person since its not allowed to purchase dash cams? Just a thought. Then a cop that wants one can have one, and if they dont want one, they dont have to take one.


-MColford

 

[Kirk Freeman]

$500,000 won't even pay for 10 officers. And diversion fees aren't placed in PD coffers. That's the city's money, and the PD, if lucky, will only see a fraction of it.

Officers? Ummm, weren't we talking about buying cameras? I could have sworn we were talking about buying cameras.

500K will purchase 166 car cameras given the 3K assumed price for just one year.

It's not the city's money. It is law enforcement money, held by the Chief Muckety-Muck of Marion County law enforcement.

IMO, it is counter productive for LE agencies to fund themselves.

Perhaps, but it is lawful and law enforcement has been doing it for decades. How the money is spent is a matter of priorities. The fact that Marion County LE does not use the diversion money for car cameras is telling.