Breaking: Truck Plows into Berlin Christmas Market

[T.Lex]

It's ok Lex, I'll cut you some slack. I know you're having a bad day. That Electoral College thing is a Bish (Paul Ryan's turn will come, someday. I promise).

No need. Clearly you aren't paying attention to my little postings on either the Electoral College or Trump lately.

I'm a YUGE fan of the EC and think that its place in our system should continue. I'm a rules guy, so all this talk of feckless electors is just ridiculous. They have the moral obligation to vote consistent with their state structure. If their state structure allows them to vote their conscience, that's fine, but the primary principle should be to vote consistent with those who voted.

My "bad day" with Trump was back in the Indiana primary.

In terms of DJT himself, I've warmed to him ever since the election. I wouldn't say I'm in full support mode (other than supporting the office of the presidency), but the fact that he's backing off his most egregiously offensive policies is heartening. IOW, my biggest concern was that he would actually try to accomplish the things he said he would. Since he probably isn't going to, my comfort-factor is increasing.

Get a copy of the Qur'ran. Read it. There is no other option in the complete obedience to the teachings than to become a violent combatant against all that is not the teachings.

These are the things that ignorant people say. Ignorant of the Koran and ignorant of contemporary Muslims.

As for a solution, it is obvious, we need to modify Islam.

Others in Europe are doing this. NPR had a segment on it this morning. Defusing The Lure Of Militant Islam In France, Despite Death Threats : Parallels : NPR

Weaken and destroy jihad as a pillar of Islam. Modify it, turn it inside, what have you.

We have modified other religions, we can do it again.

We've gone round about this before. There are limits to what "we" can do. Enforce the secular laws objectively certainly helps.

Culturally, not using religion as a shortcut to bigotry helps, too. It is a placebo for actual work. Like racial profiling.

The KKK in the 1920s was dominated by Protestants. Did "we" change the religion, Kirk?

 

[Woobie]

Say it with me: Military Age Males

The lion's share of this brand of violence is committed by MAMs. Furthermore, a goodly portion of terrorist attacks are perpetrated by Muslims. That may be corollary to their country of origin or part of the causation. If you look at the way the Quran is being taught in many places, we could reasonably say that their brand of that religion is part of the risk matrix. We also recognize that among those who are immigrants, those who commit these acts are from a few select countries. Some of them in places like Europe and the U.S. are native, while others are immigrants. More on that last point later.

If you have someone who possesses three separate risk factors, to wit, 1)MAM, 2)espouses a religion known to be frequently radicalized, and 3) comes from a particular geographical area, it is the height of insanity to simply ignore these three and blindly accept that person because it makes us feel warm inside.

But some are homegrown. This must be dealt with separately. Citizens are afforded the protections of their government's laws. An alien claims no such rights, until accepted as an immigrant.

I see nothing unreasonable about closing the border to men between the ages of 10 and 50 who are Muslim and hail from a short list of countries. Those countries should probably include Pakistan, Afghanistan, Yemen, Syria, Iraq, Iran, Somalia, and the Sudan.

Just to clarify: under this system, can a 30 year old Syrian Muslim immigrate? Yes, as long as that person is female. Can a 35 year old Muslim man immigrate? Yes, as long as he is from an approved country, for instance, India. Can a 20 year old Somali man immigrate? Yes, as long as he can provide some level of proof that he is not a Muslim, such as a letter of recommendation from a U.S. missionary or a degree in Daoism.

 

[Kirk Freeman]

We've gone round about this before. There are limits to what "we" can do. Enforce the secular laws objectively certainly helps.

For example, enforcing the secular laws against bigamy that brought the Mormons to heal and an end to the violence in the West.

The KKK in the 1920s was dominated by Protestants. Did "we" change the religion, Kirk?

Correct, we did. The FBI infilitrated and destroyed the KKK from the inside and destroyed the trust and allure of the Klan.

?Murder Wasn?t Very Pretty?: The Rise and Fall of D.C. Stephenson | History | Smithsonian

 

[Kutnupe14]

I see nothing unreasonable about closing the border to men between the ages of 10 and 50 who are Muslim and hail from a short list of countries. Those countries should probably include Pakistan, Afghanistan, Yemen, Syria, Iraq, Iran, Somalia, and the Sudan.

What about Christians from those countries? Would Israel be in that list?

 

[Woobie]

These are the things that ignorant people say. Ignorant of the Koran and ignorant of contemporary Muslims.



The KKK in the 1920s was dominated by Protestants. Did "we" change the religion, Kirk?

1) Then it must be acknowledged that many of the contemporary Muslim teachers are also ignorant of the Koran, if your interpretation of it is to be accepted as correct.

2) We did not have to change Protestantism. The Protestants marginalized and rooted out the KKK and its ilk.

 

[T.Lex]

For example, enforcing the secular laws against bigamy that brought the Mormons to heal and an end to the violence in the West.

Indeed. There's little light between us.

Correct, we did. The FBI infilitrated and destroyed the KKK from the inside and destroyed the trust and allure of the Klan.

?Murder Wasn?t Very Pretty?: The Rise and Fall of D.C. Stephenson | History | Smithsonian

But the religion was not the issue, right? It might've been a quality that connected the members, but "Protestantism" was not infiltrated. We infiltrated the groups conducting and advocating the bigotry and violence.

HUGE difference.

Also, people fought back.

78 years ago: Notre Dame battles the KKK ? Irish Echo

 

[Woobie]

What about Christians from those countries? Would Israel be in that list?

Are Israeli Christians walking onto our military installations and malls and shooting our people? Driving semis into our crowds, flying airplanes into our buildings.

The post answers itself on whether Christians would be on the list. Demonstrate that Muslim Israelis have a proclivity toward terrorism inside our borders and we will shut the door to them.

 

[T.Lex]

1) Then it must be acknowledged that many of the contemporary Muslim teachers are also ignorant of the Koran, if your interpretation of it is to be accepted as correct.

Only self-righteous simpletons suggest that contemporary Imams are ignorant of the Koran. There are thousands of moderate Muslim teachers preaching to millions of moderate Muslims that the Koran DOES NOT require the violence INGO says it does.

2) We did not have to change Protestantism. The Protestants marginalized and rooted out the KKK and its ilk.

Wait, you mean people stopped accepting bigotry? No. Way.

 

[Kirk Freeman]

But the religion was not the issue, right?

With the Klan? Yes, of course religion was the issue. The Klan stood for radical anti-Catholicism. You don't find radical anti-Catholicism in Protestantism now as the religion was . . . wait for it . . . changed.

Change the religion--Mormonism, Protestantism, Shintoism worship of the Emperor (heck, we even wrote into a Constitution)--stop the violence.

 

[Kutnupe14]

Are Israeli Christians walking onto our military installations and malls and shooting our people? Driving semis into our crowds, flying airplanes into our buildings.

So you'd allow Christians from those countries into the nation? Or what about France or Germany. There Christmas Market may be a refugee, but most of these recent attacks have been citizens of the nations where the attack took place. Are we banning ALL of them too (citizens), or just the Muslims?

 

[Woobie]

Only self-righteous simpletons suggest that contemporary Imams are ignorant of the Koran. There are thousands of moderate Muslim teachers preaching to millions of moderate Muslims that the Koran DOES NOT require the violence INGO says it does.


Wait, you mean people stopped accepting bigotry? No. Way.

Then by your own admission, you are either a self-righteous simpleton, or you acknowledge that a not-insignificant number of Imams in certain areas are teaching violence from the Koran, in spite of what everyone else is saying about it.

 

[Kirk Freeman]

Fascism is always descending on American, but only falls on Europe. https://www.thesun.co.uk/news/24403...nt-policy-for-berlin-truck-attack-by-refugee/

 

[Woobie]

So you'd allow Christians from those countries into the nation? Or what about France or Germany. There Christmas Market may be a refugee, but most of these recent attacks have been citizens of the nations where the attack took place. Are we banning ALL of them too (citizens), or just the Muslims?

You didn't even come close to reading the first post. Go back to your desk and read it again.

 

[Kutnupe14]

You didn't even come close to reading the first post. Go back to your desk and read it again.

Age 10-50, Muslim, and from a short list of countries right? I'm trying to figure out if you'd allow Christians in from those countries, and if other places like Israel (which has lengthy radical terrorist history) or places in Europe that have recently seen a spike in radical Islamic terrorism (Germany, France) are exempted.

 

[T.Lex]

With the Klan? Yes, of course religion was the issue. The Klan stood for radical anti-Catholicism. You don't find radical anti-Catholicism in Protestantism now as the religion was . . . wait for it . . . changed.

Wait, you said the FBI infiltrated the KKK. I admit that my understanding of Protestantism is limited (unlike INGOers who appear to claim mastery of Islam). Did the KKK run Protestantism, or the other way around?

Or, I guess, more specifically, how did the FBI change Protestantism in America?

Then by your own admission, you are either a self-righteous simpleton, or you acknowledge that a not-insignificant number of Imams in certain areas are teaching violence from the Koran, in spite of what everyone else is saying about it.

No, you're changing the question, so... guess what... THE ANSWER CHANGES.

Self-righteous simpletons claim that they know more about Islam and how to teach it than contemporary moderate Imams. I did not make that claim.

 

[Kirk Freeman]

Or, I guess, more specifically, how did the FBI change Protestantism in America?

By destroying the Klan it ended the radical anti-Catholicism (which you yourself linked to) of elements of Protestantism.

 

[Woobie]

No, you're changing the question, so... guess what... THE ANSWER CHANGES.

Self-righteous simpletons claim that they know more about Islam and how to teach it than contemporary moderate Imams. I did not make that claim.

Calm down, stop yelling. You must have initially misunderstood. As my second response was not inconsistent with my first. If we do not have a problem with the Koran, we do have a demonstrable problem with the way some are teaching it. Either you are wrong about what it teaches, or a significant number of its teachers are. This is binary.

 

[jamil]

For example, enforcing the secular laws against bigamy that brought the Mormons to heal and an end to the violence in the West.




Correct, we did. The FBI infilitrated and destroyed the KKK from the inside and destroyed the trust and allure of the Klan.

?Murder Wasn?t Very Pretty?: The Rise and Fall of D.C. Stephenson | History | Smithsonian

Oh, well, if that's what you meant, why didn't you just say that instead of, "As for a solution, it is obvious, we need to modify Islam."

I have to admit though, the way you said it sounded way more "Freemany".

 

[Woobie]

Age 10-50, Muslim, and from a short list of countries right? I'm trying to figure out if you'd allow Christians in from those countries, and if other places like Israel (which has lengthy radical terrorist history) or places in Europe that have recently seen a spike in radical Islamic terrorism (Germany, France) are exempted.

Look, it speaks for itself. If you can find a group of people with a demonstrable recent history of committing acts of terror inside the borders of the U.S., its territories, or those of its allies, then we will exclude them as well. Don't let your emotions control you on this. If WASPs from the British Isles start shooting up the Mall of America and committing like acts on an on-going basis, then we should exclude them until they get their act straight.

As to citizens, we have been stupid in the past. But we must own it and abide by our own laws. This was also clear in my post. If we granted citizenship to a 23 year old Muslim Somali male, that was stupid. But he is now one of us. He is afforded equal protection under the law. If he knocks down one of our skyscrapers, then he should be punished under criminal law.

 

[printcraft]

Nobody really cares about what religion or lack there of you adhere to.
There is a reason that nobody is talking about closing immigration to Buddhists or 2 dozen other religions.
Are we really going to ignore it?
Seems like a worldwide problem, not just "racist" America.