Breaking: Per SCOTUS, Same-Sex Marriage is now law of the land.

[Cerberus]

You don't actually have to reject God, though. Merely being skeptical earns the same punishment as a murderer or a rapist.

Wrong. Questioning or being skeptical are not damnable sins. Letting your questioning or skepticism separate you from him is where the problem lies. Even murderers and rapist can repent and receive salvation if they are true in their hearts. It's not actions it's faith, and true faith makes you strive to stop the bad actions and live as a proper example. It's really quite simple.

 

[Cerberus]

Exactly. When us Christians don't respect marriage any more than we have (by achieving a 50+% divorce rate), we really haven't lead with our actions...how can we expect the non-religious to respect it?

You do know the old worn out and false 50% divorce rate is actually a bit lower than that doncha? It's somewhere around 30%.

 

[Lowe0]

Wrong. Questioning or being skeptical are not damnable sins. Letting your questioning or skepticism separate you from him is where the problem lies. Even murderers and rapist can repent and receive salvation if they are true in their hearts. It's not actions it's faith, and true faith makes you strive to stop the bad actions and live as a proper example. It's really quite simple.

Actually, I left the part about murderers being forgiven on purpose, but since you bring it up; I can understand giving a truly repentant individual a second chance, but apparently I'm not worth a first chance. As I said before, if there's a God, I'm clearly a write-off in his or her book.

 

[Cerberus]

Actually, I left the part about murderers being forgiven on purpose, but since you bring it up; I can understand giving a truly repentant individual a second chance, but apparently I'm not worth a first chance. As I said before, if there's a God, I'm clearly a write-off in his or her book.

Why are you a write off? Let yourself see and you will.

 

[GodFearinGunTotin]

You do know the old worn out and false 50% divorce rate is actually a bit lower than that doncha? It's somewhere around 30%.

I did see an article today that mentioned that but I didn't get into source of the stat.

 

[Cerberus]

I did see an article today that mentioned that but I didn't get into source of the stat.

It's been a few months since I heard the source, but I think it was a government agency of some sort. Maybe the Census Bureau?

 

[GodFearinGunTotin]

It's been a few months since I heard the source, but I think it was a government agency of some sort. Maybe the Census Bureau?

If I had to hazard a guess...with so few younger folks opting for getting married in the first place, it might make sense that the ones that do tend to be more compatible. (just a hypothesis).

 

[bmbutch]

Actually, I left the part about murderers being forgiven on purpose, but since you bring it up; I can understand giving a truly repentant individual a second chance, but apparently I'm not worth a first chance. As I said before, if there's a God, I'm clearly a write-off in his or her book.

No you most certainly are not, He died for you, He loves you, & if you'll have Him, He will most certainly have you.

 

[IndyDave1776]

Actually, I left the part about murderers being forgiven on purpose, but since you bring it up; I can understand giving a truly repentant individual a second chance, but apparently I'm not worth a first chance. As I said before, if there's a God, I'm clearly a write-off in his or her book.

You are approaching this from a reversed paradigm. While in our reckoning some people are 'good' and other are not, and it is commonly thought that Hell is a punishment for being evil, this is not really the case. No one is adequate to be deemed good enough by God's standard, therefore all start life condemned to Hell. Those who come to faith are saved from this fate by the grace of God on account of having the faith to believe in and accept His salvation from the eternal death to which they, no matter how good or bad, were facing in the first place.

 

[RockofStrength]

.

 

[cobber]

I see a lot of biblical citations now on INGO, which is refreshing.


Why isn't the other side coming back with anything more than 'feelings'? Nothing from Karl M., or the Great Helmsman, Derrida, Adorno, Marcuse?

 

[PaulF]

The issue is that you perceive reasonable skepticism as a possibility in God's paradigm, which there is not....

Of course there is. The bible isn't a book by God...it is a book about God, written by men.

The bible is full of contradictions, inaccuracies, mistakes, and impossibilities. When taken at face value, the contents of that book are ridiculous.

The story itself is so fractured and incongruent that it has spawned hundreds of different sects in two completely different religions. The Jewish/Christian problem is a very real one for (especially Christian) believers, and one worth expanding on: if the Jews are right, and Jesus is not the Messiah...most of INGO are Idolaters against the God of Abraham.

Nevertheless, God is both able and willing to save any who will confess their sins, repent, and turn to Christ for their salvation.

The Hulk only gets stronger and more impervious to damage as he gets angrier...that's the great thing about fiction, you can give the characters any attribute you want.

 

[deal me in]

You are approaching this from a reversed paradigm. While in our reckoning some people are 'good' and other are not, and it is commonly thought that Hell is a punishment for being evil, this is not really the case. No one is adequate to be deemed good enough by God's standard, therefore all start life condemned to Hell. Those who come to faith are saved from this fate by the grace of God on account of having the faith to believe in and accept His salvation from the eternal death to which they, no matter how good or bad, were facing in the first place.

I don't want any part of a God who demands worship and obedience for salvation but fails to provide good evidence of his existence. A God who punishes finite thought crimes with infinite suffering. I'm glad he doesn't exist. Whoever first came up with the concept of Hell was brilliant though. Not only will we punish you in this life for acting up, you'll be punished forever. That's a great way to keep people in line.

 

[bmbutch]

The bible is full of contradictions, inaccuracies, mistakes, and impossibilities. When taken at face value, the contents of that book are ridiculous.

I've heard this before from lots of skeptics / non believers. So, give us INGO Believers your top 2 "contradictions" & let's see if we can prove said contradictions false or true.

 

[Lowe0]

You are approaching this from a reversed paradigm. While in our reckoning some people are 'good' and other are not, and it is commonly thought that Hell is a punishment for being evil, this is not really the case. No one is adequate to be deemed good enough by God's standard, therefore all start life condemned to Hell. Those who come to faith are saved from this fate by the grace of God on account of having the faith to believe in and accept His salvation from the eternal death to which they, no matter how good or bad, were facing in the first place.

Then why create a species so flawed that it has to be condemned from conception?

 

[IndyDave1776]

Then why create a species so flawed that it has to be condemned from conception?

If you read the book, the species was not created flawed in this way. There was one and only one rule, and it was broken. The result was introducing sin to humanity. Previous to this, man did not know how to engage in wrong-doing.

 

[LockStocksAndBarrel]

Cliff Kincaid penned an interesting and thoughtful article on what this relly means to all of us.

Overthrow the judicial dictatorship

 

[Lowe0]

If you read the book, the species was not created flawed in this way. There was one and only one rule, and it was broken. The result was introducing sin to humanity. Previous to this, man did not know how to engage in wrong-doing.

Then why not just punish those responsible?

 

[caverjamie]

I don't want any part of a God who demands worship and obedience for salvation but fails to provide good evidence of his existence.

I guess this has drifted off topic quite a bit. However, I have wondered about something to myself before that is related to this comment. One possible reason he hasn't provided proof of his existence is that God does not exist. Personally I don't believe that - from my perspective, I see abundant evidence that points to an intelligent creator. But I can't prove that to you or anyone else. Additionally, what kind of evidence would be sufficient? Wouldn't that depend on the particular person?

Anyways, a second possible reason for the lack of "proof" is that - if this all knowing, all powerful creator really has all those attributes, he would have an understanding far beyond our ability to comprehend. I've wondered - what if everything has been set up the way it has - because it needs to be that way for a particular reason that we are unable to understand from our perspective. I mean - if God just appeared to everyone personally and said - read my book and let me know if you want to follow me or if you'd rather follow that jerk down there. Who would refuse him? Well, some probably... But what if there is some reason you need to make the choice yourself based on faith alone - who knows! I'm just thinking out loud...

 

[Lowe0]

I've wondered - what if everything has been set up the way it has - because it needs to be that way for a particular reason that we are unable to understand from our perspective.

So otherwise-virtuous nonbelievers are just collateral damage. I'm not sure that's any better.