Bloomington Police purchase of armored truck sparks debate

[Woobie]

That's not really my argument. I'm not on the definitely yes or definitely no side of this. I'm on the it depends on the likelihood you'll need it side. I'd say Detroit can easily justify it. I'd say Georgetown PD definitely cannot justify it. Maybe an entire county can. And even for an entire county, if they can't say there's a reasonable likelihood they'll need it, then I say no.

I'm basically saying the same thing you are. There is a sliding scale, or maybe a matrix that we should be using to justify the expense. So if we put Chicago at 8 size and 9 violence on a scale from 0 to 10, and we put my yard on the other end of the scale at 0 violence (except for possums) and 0 size, then where does Monroe county fall? And at what point on that scale is a purchase like this justified? I haven't seen anything yet that justifies the purchase, so I'm against it, pending evidence.

But people don't like to show evidence for pork.

 

[Woobie]

Seriously. What's wrong with painting them pink and sticking hello-kitty decals all over them? There's no way any bad guys are going to put up a fight when you roll up in that. They'll be keeled over ROTFLTAO.

If they can justify the expense of the vehicle and its maintenance, I don't care. They can make it look like the ghost busters ride, paint a pinup on the side, stick with basic black, FDE, whatever. Have fun at work.

 

[jsharmon7]

The pink paint was mentioned in the article. I don't understand the intimidation concern. The average citizen isn't going to see it rolling down their streets on a daily basis. If it's needed, then intimidating armed and violent suspects into peaceful surrender may be part of the strategy. A big pink truck would be funny though.

 

[jamil]

The pink paint was mentioned in the article. I don't understand the intimidation concern. The average citizen isn't going to see it rolling down their streets on a daily basis. If it's needed, then intimidating armed and violent suspects into peaceful surrender may be part of the strategy. A big pink truck would be funny though.

Oh. I get it. You just don't want to roll in a pink truck.

 

[jsharmon7]

Oh. I get it. You just don't want to roll in a pink truck.

Maybe, maybe not. Are you assuming which gender I identify as? I demand a safe space!

 

[Woobie]

According to the article, BPD averages 15-17 SWAT call outs per year. They also previously had an armored vehicle until it crapped out and they couldn't afford to replace it. There is a need, and this type of equipment isn't new.

I know the paid for milsurp stuff isn't guaranteed or always easy. But did anybody try? How many of those SWAT call outs required a $225,000 piece of equipment? If we can start to establish some facts, then great. For instance, how many of those call outs were to serve warrants? And is it SOP to use bearcats for that? Should it be? So if we really would have used it once a year, does that justify the expense? Maybe, that's a good discussion. If they legitimately needed an MRAP 15-17 times last year to either save lives or at a minimum, provide safety for officers or civilians which they otherwise would have been without, I would be surprised. But I would also say that if that unlikely bit is true, then it seems easy to justify the expense.

And going back to the earlier discussion, how many of those call outs are for drugs? I know Bloomington can't help that, and I don't want dead cops because of decisions out of their control. But is that what we want as a society? Putting cops in harms way for no good reason, then dropping a ton of cash to make ourselves feel better about endangering them?

 

[shootersix]

This is getting good! Too bad I have to go to bed, IÂ’m almost looking forward to tomorrow when I can pick this up again!
ok now IÂ’ll chime in, if Bloomington wants a mrap, get a mrap! Theres no need for an officer to loose their life to realize that an mrap is needed!

hell here in eville Evansville, we bought 3 armored cars for 3 dollars (yes 300 pennys) we wrapped them with epd guardian and park them in trouble spots to scare away criminals, yes it works!, my daughter worked at a Chinese restaurant, and one night after they closed,two fine upstanding young drug dealers got into a gun fight. And one bullet ended up going through the front window, (no one was hurt), but two days later the guardian was set up in the front parking lot, it just so happened to be in front of the gang leaders house, and 2 days after that....he moved out!

the sheriff has a surplus humvee, the real cool part is that a friend of mine takes care of it, heÂ’s bought tires, he paid for an electrical fix, and he paid for the armor for it, all out of his own pocket, why? To make sure sheriffs (and IÂ’m sure local police too) go home every night safe to see their families again!

Someone on here said it costs each tax payer 1.88 to buy the mrap, would you say sorry I donÂ’t think your mom or dad are worth my 2 dollars

 

[Vigilant]

Talking about the MRAP. That's already paid for if you can qualify for a DRMO one. Ref specifically this:



Search INGO for threads on MRAP, and you can see that politics and optics sometimes make it make sense to buy a commercial armored car than take a free one. Because militarization. And budgets, although so far not a single person who's objected to the cost has been able to say what they actually cost.

From my research an MRAP is anywhere from $500K to $1,000,000. I guess cruise control, sunroof, and curb feelers are real expensive options. But they’re too scary, so $225K for a Bearcat it is. I’m still down with 113’s.

 

[bwframe]

IU sure seems to have plenty of money to throw around? Wonder why they weren't asked to contribute to this community investment or maybe even just outright buy it for BPD?

 

[Woobie]

This is getting good! Too bad I have to go to bed, IÂ’m almost looking forward to tomorrow when I can pick this up again!
ok now IÂ’ll chime in, if Bloomington wants a mrap, get a mrap! Theres no need for an officer to loose their life to realize that an mrap is needed!

hell here in eville Evansville, we bought 3 armored cars for 3 dollars (yes 300 pennys) we wrapped them with epd guardian and park them in trouble spots to scare away criminals, yes it works!, my daughter worked at a Chinese restaurant, and one night after they closed,two fine upstanding young drug dealers got into a gun fight. And one bullet ended up going through the front window, (no one was hurt), but two days later the guardian was set up in the front parking lot, it just so happened to be in front of the gang leaders house, and 2 days after that....he moved out!

the sheriff has a surplus humvee, the real cool part is that a friend of mine takes care of it, heÂ’s bought tires, he paid for an electrical fix, and he paid for the armor for it, all out of his own pocket, why? To make sure sheriffs (and IÂ’m sure local police too) go home every night safe to see their families again!

Someone on here said it costs each tax payer 1.88 to buy the mrap, would you say sorry I donÂ’t think your mom or dad are worth my 2 dollars

Let me put it this way: if I forced everyone on INGO to give me $2, do you think they should support that without question? First of all, I didn't ask, I made them give it to me. And do I really need $60,000 of other people's money? Maybe some justification is warranted. What if I had already taken $500 from every member here? Is the answer "what's another $2", or "you've already got $15,000,000, you can't have any more."?

I'm glad Evansville got an awesome deal like that. I doubt Bloomington could be so lucky to have a $3 solution to this problem. But there might be a $0 solution. Or maybe the problem isn't really a problem in the first place.

 

[GodFearinGunTotin]

Bloomington isn't Indy, Detroit, or Chicago. But's also not the charming small college town the chamber of commerce likes to paint it as.

 

[Woobie]

IU sure seems to have plenty of money to throw around? Wonder why they weren't asked to contribute to this community investment or maybe even just outright buy it for BPD?

Speaking of government waste.....

 

[Woobie]

Bloomington isn't Indy, Detroit, or Chicago. But's also not the charming small college town the chamber of commerce likes to paint it as.

Well, John Cougar's kid is running around down there, lol.

 

[GodFearinGunTotin]

Well, John Cougar's kid is running around down there, lol.

Is he still out?

 

[2ADMNLOVER]

The notion that Btown ' needs ' this thing is comical to me .

Other than the occasional dumb chick winding up on a milk carton wtf is going on down there that there's a perceived need for this gear ?

 

[2ADMNLOVER]

. Or maybe the problem isn't really a problem in the first place.

Or maybe the problem is **** training / tactics that all the gear in the world won't cure but hey if it saves ' just one life ' right .

 

[Timjoebillybob]

You either forgot your purple or you forgot to man up, fill out the app, go through the process and take on the nastiest of the nasty our society creates while maintaining any hope of making it home at the end of the day.

That said, call me when Bloomington PD starts using the Bearcat for traffic infractions and I'll side with you, otherwise step up and show them how it's done.

I'm sorry that argument doesn't hold water, doesn't matter if it's LEO, Mil, teachers, etc.

Seruously? Do you carry a gun? How many times have you been mugged, robbed or been the victim of a home invasion? Are we to suddenly believe, since it doesn’t apply to us, that since the odds are low there is no reason to prepare for the worst? If that is now the case I expect 98% of INGO to turn in their LTCH before Friday. Everyone else’s life is cheaper than our own I reckon.

Cost vs reasonable expectation of need, then throw in other peoples money being used for it. Don't know if you do traffic stops. But what would you think if you pulled someone over (or heard of it happening) and they had their LTCH and pistol on their hip, and also had a shotgun or carbine mounted next to them and the other in their trunk, full body armor on, 3" thick lexan windows, ar500 plate mounted around the passenger compartment, then throw in a tear gas launcher, pepper ball gun, some flash bangs, and other assorted riot gear(all legally owned)? Just because the odds are low the person will actually need them, is it reasonable for them to do it? Is it reasonable for them to expect you to pay for it?

Can I just get someone to explain to me where this common belief that cops get a kick out of playing military comes from? There are a lot of former military in LE and the rest of us just chose not to join the military. Why do folks here seem to think we hit some point where we change our minds and decide to play dress-up in uncomfortable gear? Do people think SWAT officers enjoy wearing all that crap? I don't enjoy wearing 25lbs of extra crap all summer long in a regular uniform, yet people think we want to add to it to feel important? And I'm sure those armored vehicles are no picnic to cruise around town inside. If someone can guarantee nobody will try to kill me for the job I do then I'll wear khakis and polos to work.

I'm sure some do, but far from all. But when all you have is a hammer... Or to put it another way, you get your new $300 impact driver, are you (or most people) going to grab it or the $.99 harbor freight screwdriver? When either will do the job. I'm guessing most will go for the impact driver in part because it's their new expensive to and they want to use it, and also to justify the cost of buying it.

https://www.policeone.com/police-pr...mored-vehicles-13-times-BearCats-saved-lives/

And in recent headlines: https://www.freep.com/story/news/lo...s-self-3-women-dead-3-cops-injured/329980002/



Nothing will happen in Bloomington, though, ever. Definitely no soft targets for terrorism or campus shooters, no domestic situations bubbling up, no mentally ill with access to firearms, no suicidal folks pondering "suicide-by-cop". They've likely never had a barricaded armed suspect and never will.

So 13 incidents nationwide in 8 years, one of which was to transport people during a blizzard which I don't really think you need an armored vehicle for that. Justifies the need for one anywhere "just in case'?

Lol, a cop petitioning?!?! We aren’t even entitled to the basic protections offered by bullet resistant steel vehicles, I can’t imagine how loud the laughs would be if we petitioned against being forced to deal with armed criminals.

Basic protection?

I’d love to see a comparison of the cost of this vehicle compared to other expenditures in Bloomington. How much does the city spend on abortions, drug treatment, welfare for the unwilling, etc.

I’m gonna guess they spend more on the “performing arts” in a six month period which is money pissed down a drain than what this vehicle costs.

And how many people on here are supporting the money spent for those things? And just because they waste money on some things doesn't justify wasting money on others.

What's it cost to sit there until it's needed?

Scott Co Sheriff's Dept got humvees. They sit in the parking lot nearly all the time. Until it floods, then they've been used to evacuate people who otherwise couldn't be evacuated. They don't "find things to do with them".

Don't know. How much does it cost for general maintenance, training, etc? I know most vehicles you can't just let them sit around indefinitely and expect them to perform when needed. And I'm pretty sure driving one and working out of it are a bit different than the same in a charger or tahoe.

The standoff in Owen County lasted 32 hours with the suspect firing several rounds at the police during it. Bloomington SWAT team was there. Read the reports and one of their officers had a round hit just a few feet from where he was positioned. Would a Bearcat have made a difference? Possibly.

Would it have made a difference? My crystal ball says no. Considering there was at least one there.

Paint the MRAP hot pink and stick hello-kitty decals all over it. Solves both problems. Doesn't appear to be militarized and Sheriff Blart won't want to use it for traffic stops.

That was actually suggested, and a councilwoman thought it was a good idea.

According to the article, BPD averages 15-17 SWAT call outs per year. They also previously had an armored vehicle until it crapped out and they couldn't afford to replace it. There is a need, and this type of equipment isn't new.

A 2 year span doesn't give much of an accurate picture in this case, at least IMO. And how many were for armed standoffs/hostage/etc, and how many were for serving warrants for a guy who's friend ratted him out for selling him an oz of weed to get himself off when he got busted? I don't know, do you? Just saying they were called out x amount of times by itself is meaningless.

 

[Timjoebillybob]

hell here in eville Evansville, we bought 3 armored cars for 3 dollars (yes 300 pennys) we wrapped them with epd guardian and park them in trouble spots to scare away criminals, yes it works!, my daughter worked at a Chinese restaurant, and one night after they closed,two fine upstanding young drug dealers got into a gun fight. And one bullet ended up going through the front window, (no one was hurt), but two days later the guardian was set up in the front parking lot, it just so happened to be in front of the gang leaders house, and 2 days after that....he moved out!

Did they happen to use one of those when they invited the press to the "knock and announce" raid and flashbanging of the grandma and granddaughter for failing to secure their wi-fi router? You know the case, the one where they later figured out who did make the threats and just asked them to come to the station which they did and were arrested without incident?

And do you think the same results in your story would have happened if they parked a marked squad across the street? I'm guessing yes. Did the gang leader realize the error of their ways and give up their life of crime, or simply move to where the pressure was a bit less? I'm guessing the latter.

 

[Woobie]

Is he still out?

I have no idea, I was just having some fun.

 

[ghitch75]

Bloomington isn't Indy, Detroit, or Chicago. But's also not the charming small college town the chamber of commerce likes to paint it as.

that is all changing with I69.....will be a suburb of Indy in the not so distant future.....