Blackhawk Serpa Holsters

[Juggernaut]

It's not just numbers. There simply is no catch to fail on most leather holsters, as there is on the Blackhawk. The releases have jammed. The springs have broken, causing the holster to retain the gun with no way to get it out. Don't think it's happened a lot, but it's an unacceptable occurence for a holster with it's intended purpose. A holster that retains with tension, whether leather or kydex, simply cannot fail in such a way.

BINGO!!! Any failure is too much when it comes to your life... could this mean.... equipment matters???? Shock and awe!!!

 

[E5RANGER375]

No, thats not what I'm saying...

I guess you are saying "the more you sweat in peace, the less you bleed in war" is a false statement....

And WWII gear is just as good as the gear we run today...

anyone who does not become familiar with their equipment prior to "Go" time is BEGGING for trouble....
You do that by training.... Not sitting around playing cards and smoking like in the war movies....

Muscle memory an so on....

What do I know... I'm just an old Marine...

thanks for your service Marine ,,, SERIOUSLY. BUUUUUTTTTTT,,,,, the last time i checked, LIMITED Marine Corps units didnt even become part of Spec Ops, until about 3 years ago or so. NOT ALL MARINES ARE SPEC OPS!! so no offense but i wont be taking high speed lessons from a regular Marine, or any Marine for that matter, personaly. just like i wouldnt take high speed lessons from a average 11 bravo Army soldier, Marines and Army Infantry are the same thing (i mean Army is always better, IMO ), marines are just taught to float in water incase their ship goes down while they are tanning at sea . i can just hear all the Marines now : "oh no he diT'nt (lisp intended)" hehehehe

As i and jeremy said, TRAINING & REPETITION of it IS KEY!!! to anything. just like you get better at sex the more you do it!! plus its fun to keep practicing.

a lot of these "SO CALLED" training academies, will accept any joe blow off the street and start teaching him at the same level as the rest of the class, when maybe a week before he never even touched a gun. thats where you get your accidents. heck the guy might have shot himself on the way to the class if he would have pulled his gun. the point is he never had a problem until he PULLED THE GUN!!! the holster didnt matter. i never heard personally of anyone with knowledge having a SERPA holster malfunction, and if they did well they better reconsider where they got theyre training from.

 

[slow1911s]

A holster that retains with tension, whether leather or kydex, simply cannot fail in such a way.

Ask Rhino about the Kydex IWB holster he had with the slight detent in the trigger guard. Ask him if it failed.

Training doesn't teach you how to disengage the retention device on demand. Practice does. Whatever your equipment is, the bottom line is that YOU have to KNOW YOUR KIT. That includes advantages and disadvantages. If you're not willing to practice, you need to simplify.

 

[Joe Williams]

Ask Rhino about the Kydex IWB holster he had with the slight detent in the trigger guard. Ask him if it failed.

Training doesn't teach you how to disengage the retention device on demand. Practice does. Whatever your equipment is, the bottom line is that YOU have to KNOW YOUR KIT. That includes advantages and disadvantages. If you're not willing to practice, you need to simplify.

More info? How can a simple detent fail?

 

[E5RANGER375]

to the "spring fail" comment. if a blackhawk serpa has an internal malfuntion then the malfunction would be while its holstered and only allow the weapon to come out of the holster (the same way it can with a leather holster if its worn out or not the right type) a internal malfuntion with a serpa RARE!!! and you will still be able to draw the weapon because nothing at that point would be retaining the pistol except the cover around it. so you cant paint the picture of some guy with his pistol permanently locked in his holster while hes being engaged NOT GONNA HAPPEN with a SERPA!!!

 

[Juggernaut]

thanks for your service Marine ,,, SERIOUSLY. BUUUUUTTTTTT,,,,, the last time i checked, LIMITED Marine Corps units didnt even become part of Spec Ops, until about 3 years ago or so. NOT ALL MARINES ARE SPEC OPS!! so no offense but i wont be taking high speed lessons from a regular Marine, or any Marine for that matter, personaly. just like i wouldnt take high speed lessons from a average 11 bravo Army soldier, Marines and Army Infantry are the same thing (i mean Army is always better, IMO ), marines are just taught to float in water incase their ship goes down while they are tanning at sea .

As i and jeremy said, TRAINING & REPETITION of it IS KEY!!! to anything. just like you get better at sex the more you do it!! plus its fun to keep practicing.

Good thing... I don't teach.... and do not claim any SF title... Hell, I dug holes and blew stuff up!

But you go, Bro!!!

 

[Juggernaut]

apparently... they DO fail....
Serpa Holster Information​

At a recent Summer Firearms training I witnessed an officer practicing the support hand (only) reload and stoppage
drills. The officer had inserted his G21 reversed, into his Serpa holster and was unable to draw it out, until the
holster had been partially disassembled. A screw was removed and a part of the holster fell out, allowing the pistol
to be drawn.
I mentioned this to a list member who reported the following regarding Glock pistols, and I’ve subsequently had
notice of the same circumstance taking place with a S&W M&P.​

From a technical evaluator:​

“I was able to duplicate the problem.
Look inside the empty holster. Along the back wall, there's a plastic bar that starts in front of the trigger guard and
ends about halfway to the bottom of the holster. As the gun is inserted, that bar is compressed against the holster
body by the dust cover, creating a friction fit. If you insert the gun upside down as described, that lever is
compressed first by the front sight, then by the balance of the slide, creating the same friction fit. The trouble starts
after the front sight clears the end of that bar. The FS is taller than the slide, and after the end of the bar clears the
FS, the bar snaps down onto the slide. When you try to pull the gun back out, the bar catches the FS locking the gun
in place.
You can correct the problem by removing the screw that holds the bar in place, or you can slide a long narrow
paddle of some sort in to raise the bar above the FS allowing it to clear.
Fatal flaw: This cannot be corrected while in the fight. The gun is stuck.
I could duplicate this holster failure with Glocks 17, 21, and 23 and the appropriate Serpa for each. Unknown how
other designs might be impacted.
If users insist on keeping the Serpa, they must not employ this particular method of refunctioning the gun.
There are many other, high quality, holster options which have no such problems.”​

Glock 21 used to
duplicate situation.
The reversed pistol
reflects an attempt to
reload using support
hand only.
Having the slide
locked to the rear may
prevent this problem,
if you have the time
and ability to do so.
Detail view showing tension device engaging front sight.
Tension device engaged against rear of front sight.
Detail of tension Device​

Any tactic, technique or procedure should be evaluated by actual use under working
conditions. Small changes or variations can introduce problems that may have undesirable
and drastic results. Test any life saving equipment as if your life, or others, may depend on​

it.
​

__

 

[E5RANGER375]

^^^ sorry National Guard is not the Army

 

[E5RANGER375]

apparently... they DO fail....
Serpa Holster Information​

​

​

At a recent Summer Firearms training I witnessed an officer practicing the support hand (only) reload and stoppage​

​

drills. The officer had inserted his G21 reversed, into his Serpa holster and was unable to draw it out ​

​

​

​

ok 2 problems here:

1. "I witnessed an officer"

2. "inserted his G21 reversed"

Nuff said

 

[jeremy]

You know if they were such worthless pieces of crap one would think in the decade I have relied on mine, countless times at various training courses of fire (both civilian & military) and 7 combat tours. It would have malfunctioned by now...

I must just be lucky...

All equipment can fail. So what. Learn from first hand accounts instead of whatever filth is the current fab and trend with the rags and "instructors". Most of the people who make something out to be sensational are being paid by a rival, someway, to make it sound that way...

 

[jeremy]

How do you put a pistol into a Serpa reversed...

 

[E5RANGER375]

BARNEY found a way, LOL

 

[jeremy]

I mean I have heavily customized (read as in hacked the holy heck out of it) mine over the years and you can still not get the M-9 in reversed...

 

[Juggernaut]

Look, I lost friends and got my CAR over there too....
But I don't remember doing a ton of "pistol fighting" over there...

Just because i don't like the serpa and have a reasonable argument to dislike it....


anyhow....

 

[E5RANGER375]

like i said thanks for your service.

just harmless fun with the marine jokes. just like i would expect back. friendly rivalry.

but all marines arent spec ops, thats true.

 

[jeremy]

But I don't remember doing a ton of "pistol fighting" over there...

Just because i don't like the serpa and have a reasonable argument to dislike it....


anyhow....

Not bashing you really just your argument...

Just because you didn't do/see pistol fighting doesn't mean it does not happen quite a lot. See much knife work either? It happens also. How about tank battles?! they happen often enough too.

I usually get stuck doing some PSD type of work or meet and greet inside small buildings and in smaller rooms. Not the place to be unlimbering automatic or burst weapons. Ranger's and my argument is based completely on what WE have experienced with this holster system. Not off of what someone else says or writes about it.

I have tried many holsters from a LOT of manufacturers. Nothing else out there yet that meets the speed and retention holding abilities of this holster. Or for that matter the amount of abuse that I have thrown at this holster...

 

[HICKMAN]

^^^ sorry National Guard is not the Army

WOW, that's a pretty BOLD F'ING statement considering the number who have DIED over the last several years!!!!

That kind of crap may have flown back when I was in and they were only weekend warriors, but not these days.

I know guardsman that have been deployed 3-5 time and others on AD that haven't been once... all combat arms people.

 

[jeremy]

WOW, that's a pretty BOLD F'ING statement considering the number who have DIED over the last several years!!!!

That kind of crap may have flown back when I was in and they were only weekend warriors, but not these days.

I have been in both... I am currently in the States Guard.
I have seen some great Guard units. I have seen some great Reserve units. I have seen some real crap from the Active side too.

I am going back to the Army after this tour in Afghan. I firmly understand his attitude towards the Guard. It has nothing to do with the number that have fallen...

Want specifics PM me Hickman, you know I don't throw trash out there in the streets for everyone to see...

 

[E5RANGER375]

WOW, that's a pretty BOLD F'ING statement considering the number who have DIED over the last several years!!!!

That kind of crap may have flown back when I was in and they were only weekend warriors, but not these days.

sorry they dont become army until activated by the president. so my statement holds water

why is now any different than when you were in?? national guard died in vietnam too and on back.

hickman, you never pop up into a thread until i make a statement, i think you search me out just to argue with me. you wanna have lunch sometime to work it out?? ill give you a hug and you can cry on big Rangers shoulder for a bit

i wasnt discracing soldiers who served overseas EVER. go hug your blankey and put your pasifier in,,,, you'll be ok

 

[HICKMAN]

I have been in both... I am currently in the States Guard.
I have seen some great Guard units. I have seen some great Reserve units. I have seen some real crap from the Active side too.

I understand where you are coming from, I served on both sides as well. But his insinuation was that the guy "was National Guard, therefore too stupid to use a holster properly".

As I said in a previous post, you'd think anyone that takes the time to use his rank and Ranger in his username, would understand that anything he says reflects the US Army, the NCO Corps and the US Rangers.

This BS talking down to fellow INGO'ers is getting old. THIS isn't the military and out here, nobody give two sh*ts if someone is/was a Ranger or not. I'll certainly respect the service, but that attitude is utter garbage.

I would certainly expect someone who holds HIMSELF in such high regard to use a little more professionalism... as you normally do.