Blackhawk Serpa holsters banned...

[actaeon277]

I was not saying to ban them. Only that I can see that side of the arguement. I also think training would help.
As to those physical responses, its well documented. I'm sure many are the reasons for ND. "Officer, it just went off"
Training people what their bodies do in stress situations is a solution.

I was just discussing both sides of the arguement. Try reading ALL my entries.

And while I haven't been in a shoot, I was a reactor operator on a sub. I at least have a small knowledge of stress, and overcoming by training.

 

[actaeon277]

And I must like them, my 1911 wears one. I still think knowledge of a problem would do me better than ignoring.

 

[OEF5]

Yes. Under perfect, non-stress environments, your finger gently brushes the release mechanism and ends up on the slide.

Now, go under a stress environment and attempt to draw. Your movements are violent, fast and aggressive. Not much gentle anything. Especially if you miss the mechanism or pull up before you've disengaged the retention. Now the gun won't come out of the holster and many users will mash down the button on the side. That's where you end up with issues.

Yes, under perfect environments with no dirt or sand in the mechanism and with enough training and practice, the SERPA works. I would just prefer to put my training time into something other that operating my holster. With my holsters, I grip the gun and pull and I'm on my way.

I shoot USPSA with a Serpa and I have a video of one of my draws where I didn't hit the button right and didn't draw, in the video you kinda see a double take. Now this is not a combat stress, this isn't HOLY CRAP I'm getting shot at stress, but it is stress ask anyone who shoots compition when you hear that buzzer.

Anyway I like my Serpa, my drawstroke is fine and finger is always along the slide and I've trained not to put the finger in the tirgger until I'm on target. You have good fundimentals of comeing out of any holster to your chest and extend out to the target then you should never have an issue. Even when training with the SEALs at Atterbury one of the things they taught me was that in a real HIGH stress you can put the finger on the triger as you are extending and start pressing...the muzzle is still going down range and if you get one round off before the sights are on targt you at least put one down range to make them duck. The rest should be shot with the front site post...They are amaizing to watch when they practice this but they have unlimited rounds to practice the technique, it's not one that I practice.

 

[TopDog]

Ah - yet another Serpa BAD thread, almost as fun as the Glock go BOOM threads. Funny after years of using both no BAD BOOM. And I still find the arguments against both amusing. So please keep them coming as I love to giggle...

 

[24Carat]

I originated the thread because of finding this on another forum and posted it with no other intent than to pass on information. I had no experience with the Serpa and no opinion one way or another. This has been quite an interesting conversation and by chance I stopped by Green's Supply in Nashville, TN to find a duty carry holster. Took my G17 in and after much trial and error walked out with a Serpa. Go figure!

 

[Paul Gomez]

I'm not a fan of the Serpa. I've seen it jam in training. I've seen people shoot themselves with them in F-O-F. I've spoken to folks who have shot themselves using the holster. I've talked with agencies who have issues with them. I've broken them in weapon retention training. Thanks but no thanks.

Having said the above, I was tasked with training a group at NASA several years ago that were issued Blackhawk Serpa Duty Holsters. This is the method that I used.

[ame]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lBuAFxqsllE[/ame]

 

[Hop]

Paul, how old is that Serpa? I have one that's not more than a few months old and don't think there's any way to do that with these newer style holsters.

Here's a pic showing a partially installed Walther P99. If I were to try to index above the button I'd have my finger in the ejection port. Blackhawk has apparently made the finger guides a lot bolder than on yours.

The second pic shows the gun fully seated into the holster.

 

[Fargo]

If this is such a problem over the use of a holster, it would be a compelling argument that one should never lay their hand on a loaded weapon at all during moments of stress. I just don't buy it.

This^. Serpas are far from perfect but I'm really tired of all the scapegoating.

I sometimes wonder if it was part of Blackhawks marking and distribution scheme to help people who shoot themselves feel better about it by giving them an inanimate object to blame???

Joe

 

[Fordtough25]

I use one for my G21, works fine.

 

[TopDog]

I'm not a fan of the Serpa. I've seen it jam in training. I've seen people shoot themselves with them in F-O-F. I've spoken to folks who have shot themselves using the holster. I've talked with agencies who have issues with them. I've broken them in weapon retention training. Thanks but no thanks.

Having said the above, I was tasked with training a group at NASA several years ago that were issued Blackhawk Serpa Duty Holsters. This is the method that I used.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lBuAFxqsllE

So are you a fan of any positive retention holsters? Holsters that employ some type of device that must be deactivated in order to release the weapon from the holster.

 

[Paul Gomez]

So are you a fan of any positive retention holsters? Holsters that employ some type of device that must be deactivated in order to release the weapon from the holster.

Absolutely! Any one that does not require the trigger finger to be involved with the act of releasing the mechanism is a step in the right direction. My preference is the Safariland ALS design. I've worked with them since 2006 and have had no issues.

 

[jeremy]

Absolutely! Any one that does not require the trigger finger to be involved with the act of releasing the mechanism is a step in the right direction. My preference is the Safariland ALS design. I've worked with them since 2006 and have had no issues.

My biggest problem with the Safariland is you cannot remove the pistol while seated...

 

[Paul Gomez]

My biggest problem with the Safariland is you cannot remove the pistol while seated...

Huh? I've never had a problem getting it out while seated or grounded or offhand only. What is happening that prevents you from getting the gun out?

 

[jeremy]

My Serpa...
Current Mod Version...