Better look at UC Davis pepper spray incident.

[spec4]

The student behavior should have resulted in all of them being arrested once the police were surrounded. Surrounding police and making demands IMO is not "peaceful protest"

 

[Kutnupe14]

In this situation, yes. The student/campus police relationship is not (and should not be) the same as the general public/Professional Police relationship. And the limit is (IMHO):Use violence only once violence is used against me.

There are plenty of legit instances where non-violent persons have been on the receiving end of violence from police. To think that simply because one is "peaceful," they will avoid violence is naive.

 

[IndyBeerman]

In this situation, yes. The student/campus police relationship is not (and should not be) the same as the general public/Professional Police relationship. And the limit is (IMHO):Use violence only once violence is used against me.

Ok let get to a point here.....

Does not matter if this was UC Davis Police, the city of Davis police, or Davis County Sheriff, they are law enforcement officers with arresting powers no matter where they are at. So they should be treated as such and with respect.

Would you be stating a different opinion if this was one of the other departments or even Cali State police being there?

The badge with arresting powers means didly squat on where they are from. Break the law and dance with the bailiff on the day of your sentencing.

This is the price you pay to not obey.

 

[finnegan]

Is your stance that because they we're "peaceful," no "violence" should have been used? And if so, are there limits to how long one stays "non0violent," in the face of peaceful opposition?

Apparently the police stayed non-violent for a about 4 hours, so I'd say that's about that long they felt could stay non-violent in face of a mixture of peaceful and aggressive non-violent opposition. Their decision to use violence was a strategic loss. As long as they weren't being attacked or determined that an attack was imminent, there is no reason to give the protesters a victory like they did.

And I agree with the posters who said if they were all wearing the same clothes (and police are civilians, lest we forget) this whole matter would take on a different perspective.

What I really hope this incident does is force law enforcement personnel to ask "Is that really necessary?" if they are ordered to clear out a peaceful (or more appropriately a non-violent, but aggressive) protest to avoid a situation from escalating up to or beyond the point that this one got to.

 

[TMU317]

I think the chances are pretty good that we're all more heavily armed than those guys...but i still say there's no need to bring a stick to wordfight, let alone a gun.

So i stand by what i wrote: they were over-armed for the situation...they are the campus police.


(To be clear...this is all in the spirit of lively and open discussion...i do not intend to offend anyone personally. It's just the interwebs, afterall...)

No need to bring a stick to a word fight? So, should I only carry a firearm when I know there will be a gun fight? As far as authority what makes a campus police officer such as a Butler PD officer different than say, an IMPD officer? I am confused. I see campus police officers conducting traffic stops, responding to emergency calls, arresting criminals...etc. I also see IMPD officers conducting traffic stops, responding to emergency calls, arresting criminals...etc. As far as I know, they are both sworn police officers and have the same authority. So, I am not sure why these officers being "campus police" makes a difference.

 

[ultraspec]

By comparison? uhm...yes. Yes.

YES!

How much do you need? I say only a badge and a zip-tie, maybe a pen. They are the campus police.

Yeah because we all know college campus's dont get shot up right?

They are trained and certified through the state and should have guns. Same as any other cops. Just because YOU dont feel that way a lot of other people obviously do.

 

[cobber]

I don't think the students' throw-back tactics to the 60s won them many new supporters in this incident. And unlike in the 60s, the police were remarkably restrained in the face of childish provocations.

Watching the video I was hoping at some point the students would just STFU and stop running up to the police, shooting video on their iPhones. It was like watching a 1st grade recess. (And what is this running at police and grabbing/pushing at them?)

This is not a group I intend to make common cause with anytime soon, if that is their idea of free speech and assembly.

My money is on them all going into corporate jobs on graduation, assuming they get offers.

I would be a lot more sympathetic if these demonstrations were populated by the working poor, rather than a bunch of pampered students with iPhones and other toys. But the working poor are too busy...working. Strange.

 

[Kutnupe14]

I don't think the students' throw-back tactics to the 60s won them many new supporters in this incident. And unlike in the 60s, the police were remarkably restrained in the face of childish provocations.

Watching the video I was hoping at some point the students would just STFU and stop running up to the police, shooting video on their iPhones. It was like watching a 1st grade recess. (And what is this running at police and grabbing/pushing at them?)

This is not a group I intend to make common cause with anytime soon, if that is their idea of free speech and assembly.

My money is on them all going into corporate jobs on graduation, assuming they get offers.

Ding! How quickly would they fall "out of step" with their beliefs, if the CEO from a Fortune 500 company showed up and yelled "$100k/yr jobs for the first 10 that shake my hand!"

Like yesteryear, today's hippies are tomorrows Republicans.

 

[EvilBlackGun]

I'D LIKE TO ORDER ...

24 aerosol cns of high-per-bolle. Grizzly-strength if it's available.

Then A, you are also probably high school educated, with makes one wonder why you brought the point up.

B, not sure if you noticed, but this is a gun owners website, where most of the members carry their "tools" daily. Have been too many instances of members "hammering" anything.

And C, as someone already stated, hyperbole does you no service in making your point.

BUT MIGHT IT NOT STOP A BEAR ??

 

[shibumiseeker]

24 aerosol cns of high-per-bolle. Grizzly-strength if it's available.

BUT MIGHT IT NOT STOP A BEAR ??

Interestingly enough, you use bear spray completely differently on bears than you use pepper spray on people, even though they may be very similar.

I personally wouldn't try to stop a bear with hyperbole, but I might with supersonic projectiles.

 

[ultraspec]

The student behavior should have resulted in all of them being arrested once the police were surrounded. Surrounding police and making demands IMO is not "peaceful protest"

I don't think the students' throw-back tactics to the 60s won them many new supporters in this incident. And unlike in the 60s, the police were remarkably restrained in the face of childish provocations.

Watching the video I was hoping at some point the students would just STFU and stop running up to the police, shooting video on their iPhones. It was like watching a 1st grade recess. (And what is this running at police and grabbing/pushing at them?)

This is not a group I intend to make common cause with anytime soon, if that is their idea of free speech and assembly.

My money is on them all going into corporate jobs on graduation, assuming they get offers.

I would be a lot more sympathetic if these demonstrations were populated by the working poor, rather than a bunch of pampered students with iPhones and other toys. But the working poor are too busy...working. Strange.

Exactly.

 

[EvilBlackGun]

It was a real shock to me.

I went to a T-party shindigg and was amazed and insulted to find
that one of the speakers looked exactly like the hippy-types that
spat on me and called me "baby-killer" when I went home to IU-
Bloomington in my CONUS rotation from 'Nam in 1968. But he said
that HE was a 'Nam Vet too, so I just accepted it as part of my re-
education. He never said why he took up the hippy impersonation.

Ding! Like yesteryear, today's hippies are tomorrows Republicans.

 

[UncleMike]

First, thanks Denny for the post!!

Second;
People here seem to be arguing with someone who has been a member for over two and a half years, and has a grand total of sixty five posts in all that time.
I suspect either a Liberal implant or a common pot stirrer.
Just my

 

[PaulF]

Thanks for the personal attack, UncleMike.

I happen to believe it's often better to open my ears than to open my mouth.

I have been an avid reader of this forum for years. I use it a a resource to answer my many gun questions. Things get covered pretty well here, and it's not often i feel the need to add my opinion. I thought it would be fun to add to this, though. I guess my opinion is not as valuable to you as others. OK.

This might shock you...liberals own guns too.

 

[UncleMike]

Thanks for the personal attack, UncleMike.

I happen to believe it's often better to open my ears than to open my mouth.

I have been an avid reader of this forum for years. I use it a a resource to answer my many gun questions. Things get covered pretty well here, and it's not often i feel the need to add my opinion. I thought it would be fun to add to this, though. I guess my opinion is not as valuable to you as others. OK.

This might shock you...liberals own guns too.

All well and good...
However it smacks of pot stirring when someone who hasn't posted in so long that their post record only goes back five days, suddenly takes an interest in a thread, that refutes other threads that roundly condemned the Davis Police for their actions.
It appears now that the Davis Officers exercised extreme restraint in their reaction to the protesters ILLEGAL actions, and also that the LIBERAL Media went out of their way to edit, or selectively exhibit, the news of that incident.
And I'm fully aware that many Liberals own firearms.
Although it seems a bit hypocritical to own the very tools that they claim are "evil in and of themselves" and should be banned for other people.

 

[PaulF]

Although it seems a bit hypocritical to own the very tools that they claim are "evil in and of themselves" and should be banned for other people.

WHEN DID I SAY THIS?

What a CRAP stereotype!!!

How's this for a stereotype: Turn off FOX news and TALK to a few liberals. We're not actually what the 'conservative' media would have you believe.

Democrat DOES NOT equal liberal. Democrats are politicians...Liberals can be real people, maybe even a neighbor or friend. This one is a fellow gun owner and enthusiast.

Please...

 

[shibumiseeker]

.
And I'm fully aware that many Liberals own firearms.
Although it seems a bit hypocritical to own the very tools that they claim are "evil in and of themselves" and should be banned for other people.

And as I point out often, the gap in gun ownership between self described liberals and conservatives is not that wide. around 40 and 60% respectively.

As far as I am concerned on this issue, there are supporters of gun ownership and there are detractors of same, and their other political beliefs tend to not map very well.

 

[UncleMike]

WHEN DID I SAY THIS?

What a CRAP stereotype!!!

How's this for a stereotype: Turn off FOX news and TALK to a few liberals. We're not actually what the 'conservative' media would have you believe.

Democrat DOES NOT equal liberal.

Please...

I'm not basing my opinion on stereotypes.
I'm basing it on my personal observations going back almost fifty years.
And I speak to Liberals every day on a variety of subjects.
I'll NEVER agree with their political views, or their incessant defense of radicals.
Period!!
Other than that I find them to be interesting people and a source of a good laugh occasionally.

 

[PaulF]

I'm not basing my opinion on stereotypes.
I'm basing it on my personal observations going back almost fifty years.
And I speak to Liberals every day on a variety of subjects.
I'll NEVER agree with their political views, or their incessant defense of radicals.
Period!!
Other than that I find them to be interesting people and a source of a good laugh occasionally.

Don't forget: It was gun-toting radicals who founded this country. To Rage against the machine is as American as apple pie.

 

[UncleMike]

Don't forget: It was gun-toting radicals who founded this country. To Rage against the machine is as American as apple pie.

To the point however.
The "radicals" that you speak of were NOT Liberals.
They were hard core, dyed in the wool, kiss my *ss Conservatives.