Best Indiana SHTF rifle...NO AK OR AR!

[jeremy]

There's plenty of choices now for under $1000. However, if self-defense is even a secondary requirement, bolt actions rifles or carbines should be eliminated from consideration.

Uhhhh...

Just like everything in the Firearms Community it is not quite so cut a dried as that...

 

[gunowner930]

Uhhhh...

Just like everything in the Firearms Community it is not quite so cut a dried as that...

I guess you could make a bolt action rifle work in pinch. However, when everything is equal it will never match the volume of fire of a semi-auto. I know you know that, so I guess I'm asking what are you getting at specifically? Especially an apples to apples comparison like a Mosin and say an SVT40

 

[jeremy]

I guess you could make a bolt action rifle work in pinch. However, when everything is equal it will never match the volume of fire of a semi-auto. I know you know that, so I guess I'm asking what are you getting at specifically? Especially an apples to apples comparison like a Mosin and say an SVT40

A person Trained well in the use of their Rifle can do amazing things with it...

While I do not claim to be Well Trained in its use. I can rapid fire my Enfields very quickly and score consistent hits with it. As fast as I can from a AR or an AK, No. Fast enough to make you think twice about wanting to move closer, probably.

I know of a couple of persons that crank the rounds through their Mausers quickly as well...

 

[teddy12b]

I guess you could make a bolt action rifle work in pinch. However, when everything is equal it will never match the volume of fire of a semi-auto. I know you know that, so I guess I'm asking what are you getting at specifically? Especially an apples to apples comparison like a Mosin and say an SVT40

Bolt guns have been in a lot of wars both with scopes and iron sights. We're all aware of that, but the key element is that you have to work what you've got to your advantage. Obviously the AR & AK types are going to have an incredibly higher rate of fire, but there's a difference between dumping a magazine as fast as you can and well aimed shots. Up close the mag dumping guns are going to win hands down, so use the assumed greater accuracy of a bolt action rifle to your advantage with greater distance. AR's & AK can hit man sized targets at 300 yards if the man is standing up and presenting a nice shot. Once the shots start and everyone gets down, all you'll likely see are the heads and tops of rifles if you see anything at all. What I'm getting at is that the targets get much smaller after the first shot.

Keep in mind that my go to guns are AR's, and they would be my first choice, but if I can't have that I'm going with distance because I don't want to be close to the guys loaded with AR's & AK's or them to get close to me. I woudn't let a bolt action scare you off from owning a good rifle. So long as you work it's advantages to your favor. Heck, I've got a 30-06 encore with burris ballistic plex reticle that's a no brainer to make hits out to 500 yards. I'd be terrified of someone on the other end of that single shot rifle if they didn't like me and knew how to really shoot.

 

[netsecurity]

Good luck laying down suppressive fire with a bolt action rifle that only holds a few rounds, like a Remington 700, or a shotgun. For defense an automatic is a must...unless the enemy is using muzzle loaders or bolt actions themselves.

I can't believe this thread is still going LOL.

 

[jeremy]

Good luck laying down suppressive fire with a bolt action rifle that only holds a few rounds, like a Remington 700, or a shotgun. For defense an automatic is a must...unless the enemy is using muzzle loaders or bolt actions themselves.

I can't believe this thread is still going LOL.

I can lay down a rate of fire of 15 rounds a Minute and hit a 12" steel target at 200 yds with my Enfield. 12 rounds a minute if I shift between targets...

Care to rush me...

 

[Fordtough25]

I can lay down a rate of fire of 15 rounds a Minute and hit a 12" steel target at 200 yds with my Enfield. 12 rounds a minute if I shift between targets...

Care to rush me...

I believe you. I have seen several people with bolt action rifles throw lead and hit quickly. Enfield probably being better than most because of it's capacity and stripper clips. I can work my K98 pretty quick, with stripper clips. Whatever rifle I ended up with it's bound to be better than a sharp stick.

 

[EvilBlackGun]

Being descriptive ...

... is not the same as being the advocate. Take your sticks and stones and put them. You GO!, Ted! EBG

.....and still wonders why about his mental illnesses.

 

[gunowner930]

Bolt guns have been in a lot of wars both with scopes and iron sights. We're all aware of that, but the key element is that you have to work what you've got to your advantage. Obviously the AR & AK types are going to have an incredibly higher rate of fire, but there's a difference between dumping a magazine as fast as you can and well aimed shots. Up close the mag dumping guns are going to win hands down, so use the assumed greater accuracy of a bolt action rifle to your advantage with greater distance. AR's & AK can hit man sized targets at 300 yards if the man is standing up and presenting a nice shot. Once the shots start and everyone gets down, all you'll likely see are the heads and tops of rifles if you see anything at all. What I'm getting at is that the targets get much smaller after the first shot.

Of course there are scenarios when the bolt gun can is still effective. If there wasn't, they wouldn't still be in use as sniper rifles. I'm not sure about bolt guns being inherently more accurate, I've read literature arguing for and against that. While the bolt gun's deficiencies are masked at long range engagements with slow accurate fire, I'd argue that that scenario is heavily influenced by cartridge choice as well. Here is where the full-powered cartridges start displaying some advantages over the intermediate cartridges.

Keep in mind that my go to guns are AR's, and they would be my first choice, but if I can't have that I'm going with distance because I don't want to be close to the guys loaded with AR's & AK's or them to get close to me. I woudn't let a bolt action scare you off from owning a good rifle. So long as you work it's advantages to your favor. Heck, I've got a 30-06 encore with burris ballistic plex reticle that's a no brainer to make hits out to 500 yards. I'd be terrified of someone on the other end of that single shot rifle if they didn't like me and knew how to really shoot.

I could see a good bolt gun as a secondary weapon, my argument is that they typically do not match the versatility of a semi-auto. An AR-10 gives one the ability to partake in the long range engagement and also be useful up close. I understand what Jeremy is saying as well, somebody who can work a bolt very quickly and lay down accurate fire is a very dangerous man who can make his rifle work in pretty much any scenario. However, for the average guy looking to defend himself in SHTF, I think a semi-auto is typically a better choice.

Responses in red. I really don't think there is much disagreement. Perhaps I should have specified that for most people a semi-auto is a better choice, however there are those who are very proficient with bolt action rifles and can make them work.

 

[rightwinger]

Mossberg 590 with slug barrel and bird barrel

 

[HARVEYtheDAMNED]

I have a Marlin model 60 that I would absolutely use in a SHTF/EOTWAWKI situation.

I'll take 4000 rounds of .22lr over hundreds of any other caliber any day of the week.

 

[teddy12b]

Responses in red. I really don't think there is much disagreement. Perhaps I should have specified that for most people a semi-auto is a better choice, however there are those who are very proficient with bolt action rifles and can make them work.

I dont think we're disagreeing either. My point was that my bolt action would be my second choice, but still far from unarmed.

 

[canoeman]

The .22 has the advantage of being able to carry 1000 rounds in two pockets!

 

[U.S. Patriot]

Squirt Gun

 

[Tombs]

Marlin 336BL

Slap a forward rail on it and mount a used aimpoint M2.

It'll do anything that 99.9% of shooters are capable of, even if it ain't pretty. Trust me when I say it's a hell of a fast shooting platform with accuracy to spare, and nobody will argue the effectiveness and availability of the 30-30.

Similar but a little more pricey to do. IMO it's drop dead beautiful.

When I have some more income I plan on doing a a shortened 45-70 SHTF rifle. I would go 30-30 but I can't be arsed with loading a rifle caliber yet, I have some weird fear of loading anything bottle necked.

In all honesty, I'd prefer a platform like this to anything offered in the tactical market. A self contained system, such as wheel guns and lever guns will be much better in a situation where you don't have much support behind you, plus you'll never need to worry about the laws leading up to then. Regardless what anyone says, a self contained system has its merits.

 

[teddy12b]

Marlin 336BL

Slap a forward rail on it and mount a used aimpoint M2.

It'll do anything that 99.9% of shooters are capable of, even if it ain't pretty. Trust me when I say it's a hell of a fast shooting platform with accuracy to spare, and nobody will argue the effectiveness and availability of the 30-30.

Similar but a little more pricey to do. IMO it's drop dead beautiful.

When I have some more income I plan on doing a a shortened 45-70 SHTF rifle. I would go 30-30 but I can't be arsed with loading a rifle caliber yet, I have some weird fear of loading anything bottle necked.

In all honesty, I'd prefer a platform like this to anything offered in the tactical market. A self contained system, such as wheel guns and lever guns will be much better in a situation where you don't have much support behind you, plus you'll never need to worry about the laws leading up to then. Regardless what anyone says, a self contained system has its merits.

While it wouldnt be my first choice i dont think I'd feel undergunned with a lever gun. Mine is a 44mag that holds 10 rounds and has been 100% reliable. AR first, bolt or lever second.

 

[redpitbull44]

I made it to pg 3 before I said IDGAF and I will just post my answer.

Out to 300yd (minimum, more like 500) and will kill anything that moves in this state:


Vz. 58 in 7.62x39. Forward mounted Trijicon SRS. And if you are dumb enought to try and relate it to an AK, may God have mercy on your soul.

Beyond those ranges my choice falls to a PTR91 in .308win. w/ Bill Springfield trigger job, Bushnell 6500 Elite 2.5-16x42mm mil dot, Magpul PRS, and Harris bipod.

I am a firm believer in 7.62x39, .308win and .300 win mag. For something in .300 win mag I would go for a Savage 116 Weather Warrior or 111 Long Range Hunter, either would be equipped with the heavier threaded barrel, muzzle brake, and detachable magazine. The LR Hunter in .338 Lapua would be nice too.

 

[IndyDave1776]

Vz. 58 in 7.62x39. Forward mounted Trijicon SRS. And if you are dumb enought to try and relate it to an AK, may God have mercy on your soul.

But they ARE alike. They both fire 7.62x39 with the intended purpose of eliminating hostile troops, much in the same way that those 93/95 Mausers that Spain converted to 7.62x51 are just like a GE minigun!

 

[Mosinguy]

Vz. 58 in 7.62x39. Forward mounted Trijicon SRS. And if you are dumb enought to try and relate it to an AK, may God have mercy on your soul.

someone finally got around my stipulation on AK style rifles. Congrats

 

[redpitbull44]

someone finally got around my stipulation on AK style rifles. Congrats

Thank You! Thank You! I'm here all week. Be kind to your waitress, and remember to tip the valet.