Baldwin "The trigger wasn't pulled. I didn't pull the trigger."

[STFU]

Too bad that the person who actually pulled the trigger and shot someone in the face, thus killing the individual, walks. Why does the ammunition even enter into the picture?

Ummm...1) she was shot in in the chest, not the face; and 2) ammo matters because it was a movie set and the armorer screwed up by load live rounds that were not even authorized to be on the set.

Yes, he pulled the trigger. Not disputing that at all.
But the bottom line remains that the armorer screwed up and even worse...the prosecution really screwed up. And NO, I don't think they were paid off. They were playing a game by hiding evidence and they got caught.

 

[Leo]

Now legal analysts are saying this failure to disclose evidence may also affect the conviction of the armorer because the same evidence was withheld in her case as well.
This almost looks like it was set up to fail.
How could a prosecutor screw up TWO cases?
This simply cannot be incompetence.

Check to see if the prosecutor's wife has a new Convertible sports car and see if they just got an amazing deal on a vacation chalet.

 

[Mgderf]

The prosecution got caught hiding exculpatory evidence and paid the ultimate price; dismissal with prejudice. Its amazing that we often only hear of this happening in "celebrity" cases; however, it happens all the time. Corrupt prosecutors hide evidence even against innocent people just to improve their conviction record. Try going to court "pro se" or witness a trial in traffic court where the defendant is "pro se" and you will see the greatest abuse of "justice" you will ever witness. The prosecution will trample the defendant.
Forget all the whining about Baldwin being a POS celebrity. The fact remains that the prosecution withheld exculpatory evidence and paid the ultimate price. Period. End of story!

I agree 100%, but the fact that the prosecutors got caught playing stupid games doesn't nullify the fact that Alec Baldwin is still a gigantic piece of s**t.

 

[Ingomike]

The prosecution got caught hiding exculpatory evidence and paid the ultimate price; dismissal with prejudice. Its amazing that we often only hear of this happening in "celebrity" cases; however, it happens all the time. Corrupt prosecutors hide evidence even against innocent people just to improve their conviction record. Try going to court "pro se" or witness a trial in traffic court where the defendant is "pro se" and you will see the greatest abuse of "justice" you will ever witness. The prosecution will trample the defendant.
Forget all the whining about Baldwin being a POS celebrity. The fact remains that the prosecution withheld exculpatory evidence and paid the ultimate price. Period. End of story!

Great post! AB is as described, but even trash has constitutional rights. Our crumbling justice system is the real issue.

 

[eric001]

I agree 100%, but the fact that the prosecutors got caught playing stupid games doesn't nullify the fact that Alec Baldwin is still a gigantic piece of s**t.

Couple of thoughts crossed my mind while catching up on this story today:

1) The vast majority of Hollywood actors, producers, etc. are somewhere between very and extremely far down the Democrap rabbit hole, in my opinion. To my way of thinking, that vast majority are also just as much pieces of **** as Baldwin--his views didn't form in a vacuum after all.

So, acknowledging that the run of the mill Hollywood actor is most likely a piece of **** that is also most likely entirely self-centered and entitled... Baldwin most likely had the same expectation as any other actor on a set with guns involved--namely, that there would NEVER be live ammo involved, nor would pulling the trigger EVER cause actual harm. Look at the thousands of movie scenes dating back to the beginning of movies and try to tell me that live ammo wasn't STRICTLY controlled for gunfight scenarios in every single movie! I find it hard to fault him for that expectation while at the same time having no patience for his bull **** excuses about not pulling said trigger and overall not taking responsibility for doing so.

2) Prosecutors getting caught THIS TIME indicates this is more of a common practice than I'd have thought possible--this is more like the old nascar thing where crew chiefs of old cheated ALL the time and only occasionally got caught...cheating to win was accepted, normal and even encouraged in many ways. NOT something I'd hoped to see with regards to our legal (note I'm not claiming "justice") system. THIS is the thing that disappoints, scares, and the more I think about it, horrifies me. Makes me think the whole system should be cleaned of filth somehow or just torn down and rebuilt. Even makes Big Red's views about the central state sound...sigh... almost reasonable.

 

[Ark]

To everyone who says prosecutors can't possibly be this incompetent:

Didn't you just watch Ryan Binger point an AR15 at the jury?

 

[DoggyDaddy]

To everyone who says prosecutors can't possibly be this incompetent:

Didn't you just watch Ryan Binger point an AR15 at the jury?

 

[ECS686]

Ummm...1) she was shot in in the chest, not the face; and 2) ammo matters because it was a movie set and the armorer screwed up by load live rounds that were not even authorized to be on the set.

Yes, he pulled the trigger. Not disputing that at all.
But the bottom line remains that the armorer screwed up and even worse...the prosecution really screwed up. And NO, I don't think they were paid off. They were playing a game by hiding evidence and they got caught.

^^This^^

While yes Baldwin is a POS too many people let Political emotion get to them.

Several career competent movie armorers one from the set of Heat even said it was not the actors fault!

 

[Ark]

View attachment 365579

Excuse me, Thomas Binger, the prosecutor from the Rittenhouse case. My bad, I've been huffing paint this morning.

 

[Leo]

None of this would have happened if the Baldwin brothers had the integrity to keep their word. The Balwin brothers, Stresand, Goldberg and many others threatened to "LEAVE THE COUNTRY" and take everything with them if George Bush was elected. They didn't. Then they grandstanded again that they and dozens of others would leave if Donald Trump Became president. (I guess they thought that someone would think America would be short of entertainers) None of them left.

Because of not keeping his word twice, an innocent camera operator is pushing up daisies and another woman is behind bars. And we still have this (anti gun) lying blowhard free to keep reeking havoc as his emotions, ego and fantasy views overrun reality.

That ain't right.

 

[bwframe]

Makes you wonder where taxpayer funded prosecutors get their unchecked power from?

What gives them the authority to knowingly blatantly not follow the parameters of their jobs?

Are prosecutors EVER held accountable for their actions? Can they be fired and or fined for their job failures?

While this case is a big deal, what would happen to you or me, were we to find ourselves the victim of a corrupt prosecutor, with no regard for their job or the law?

 

[Mgderf]

^^This^^

While yes Baldwin is a POS too many people let Political emotion get to them.

Several career competent movie armorers one from the set of Heat even said it was not the actors fault!

And they are all wrong!
I don't care who you are, or who else has "checked/cleared" a firearm, the person who pulled the trigger is responsible in my eye.
Or are the rules of firearm safety no longer ger relevant?

 

[ECS686]

And they are all wrong!
I don't care who you are, or who else has "checked/cleared" a firearm, the person who pulled the trigger is responsible in my eye.
Or are the rules of firearm safety no longer ger relevant?

The actor is in a movie where the firearm is suppose to be a non live firing prop gun that is suppose to be checked by 3-4 people before the actor.actors are just tools

I’d say someone that ran the firearms for major movies like Heat might know a thing more than us here. There were many many protocols violated to pretty much blame Baldwin.

But people dislike him I get it but that also makes the pot calling the kettle black when someone on ones same political side gets a case thrown out!

But all that aside when the Prosecution gets caught doing shady stuff it could have been Charles Manson and the Judge has no choose but to throw the case out!

 

[Mgderf]

The actor is in a movie where the firearm is suppose to be a non live firing prop gun that is suppose to be checked by 3-4 people before the actor.actors are just tools

I’d say someone that ran the firearms for major movies like Heat might know a thing more than us here. There were many many protocols violated to pretty much blame Baldwin.

But people dislike him I get it but that also makes the pot calling the kettle black when someone on ones same political side gets a case thrown out!

Everyone is entitled to their own opinion, and my opinion is that Baldwin has at least some degree of culpability, regardless of others responsibilities.
The 4 rules of firearm safety apply, 100% of the time, WITHOUT exceptions.

If, Baldwin HAD checked the gun beforehand, chances are better that the live round may have been discovered before the accident.
If Baldwin had not been pointing the gun directly at another human being, she would not have suffered an injury.

I agree that Alec Baldwin was not the only person responsible for this travesty, but he is FAR from being innocent.

 

[Butch627]

^^This^^

While yes Baldwin is a POS too many people let Political emotion get to them.

Several career competent movie armorers one from the set of Heat even said it was not the actors fault!

Links to this please because everyone I know in the industry including many propmasters, armors, and people teaching film firearms classes put a great deal of the responsibility on Baldwin.

 

[Mgderf]

Couple of thoughts crossed my mind while catching up on this story today:

1) The vast majority of Hollywood actors, producers, etc. are somewhere between very and extremely far down the Democrap rabbit hole, in my opinion. To my way of thinking, that vast majority are also just as much pieces of **** as Baldwin--his views didn't form in a vacuum after all.

So, acknowledging that the run of the mill Hollywood actor is most likely a piece of **** that is also most likely entirely self-centered and entitled... Baldwin most likely had the same expectation as any other actor on a set with guns involved--namely, that there would NEVER be live ammo involved, nor would pulling the trigger EVER cause actual harm. Look at the thousands of movie scenes dating back to the beginning of movies and try to tell me that live ammo wasn't STRICTLY controlled for gunfight scenarios in every single movie! I find it hard to fault him for that expectation while at the same time having no patience for his bull **** excuses about not pulling said trigger and overall not taking responsibility for doing so.

2) Prosecutors getting caught THIS TIME indicates this is more of a common practice than I'd have thought possible--this is more like the old nascar thing where crew chiefs of old cheated ALL the time and only occasionally got caught...cheating to win was accepted, normal and even encouraged in many ways. NOT something I'd hoped to see with regards to our legal (note I'm not claiming "justice") system. THIS is the thing that disappoints, scares, and the more I think about it, horrifies me. Makes me think the whole system should be cleaned of filth somehow or just torn down and rebuilt. Even makes Big Red's views about the central state sound...sigh... almost reasonable.

I have no way to verify, but early reporting had stories that the crew members were using the "prop gun" on site, but off of the set, for live fire practice shooting between filming episodes.
If this is true, everyone on that set had to know the possibility of live rounds in the area.

No.
There is NO WAY Baldwin does not hold some degree of responsibility.

 

[thunderchicken]

The actor is in a movie where the firearm is suppose to be a non live firing prop gun that is suppose to be checked by 3-4 people before the actor.actors are just tools

I’d say someone that ran the firearms for major movies like Heat might know a thing more than us here. There were many many protocols violated to pretty much blame Baldwin.

But people dislike him I get it but that also makes the pot calling the kettle black when someone on ones same political side gets a case thrown out!

But all that aside when the Prosecution gets caught doing shady stuff it could have been Charles Manson and the Judge has no choose but to throw the case out!

There were safety failures across the board on this set from what has been said. Shouldn't have been live ammo anywhere on the set. But, there were reports that while not filming some did shoot live ammo on location. So seems somewhat reasonable to expect there was live ammo somewhere there. Sounded like the person who grabbed the gun and declared it safe before handing it to Baldwin failed to verify the gun was safe and never showed it as clear. Not to mention that person was not the armorer and should have never picked up the gun to begin with. Others who probably should have witnessed it being cleared before being declared safe failed to speak up and ask to see it empty. Baldwin as the end user failed to make sure the gun was cleared. Then pointed a gun at someone and pulled the trigger. All failures across the board.
Multiple people failed to follow safety protocols but only 1 is in prison for these failures. While others who acted negligently are walking free. If they had been trained on safety expectations before they started any filming then each should be held accountable for their part in the chain of events that lead to a camera operator being killed. Baldwin's failures as the end user in my opinion should carry the most responsibility. Anyone who says it's not his fault are delusional and selling a line of BS. Again he failed to verify the gun was empty, pointed the gun and pulled the trigger.

 

[nipprdog]

I have no way to verify, but early reporting had stories that the crew members were using the "prop gun" on site, but off of the set, for live fire practice shooting between filming episodes.
If this is true, everyone on that set had to know the possibility of live rounds in the area.

I heard those stories also.

 

[ECS686]

There were safety failures across the board on this set from what has been said. Shouldn't have been live ammo anywhere on the set. But, there were reports that while not filming some did shoot live ammo on location. So seems somewhat reasonable to expect there was live ammo somewhere there. Sounded like the person who grabbed the gun and declared it safe before handing it to Baldwin failed to verify the gun was safe and never showed it as clear. Not to mention that person was not the armorer and should have never picked up the gun to begin with. Others who probably should have witnessed it being cleared before being declared safe failed to speak up and ask to see it empty. Baldwin as the end user failed to make sure the gun was cleared. Then pointed a gun at someone and pulled the trigger. All failures across the board.
Multiple people failed to follow safety protocols but only 1 is in prison for these failures. While others who acted negligently are walking free. If they had been trained on safety expectations before they started any filming then each should be held accountable for their part in the chain of events that lead to a camera operator being killed. Baldwin's failures as the end user in my opinion should carry the most responsibility. Anyone who says it's not his fault are delusional and selling a line of BS. Again he failed to verify the gun was empty, pointed the gun and pulled the trigger.

You can have your opinion. I am simply explaining what an industry person with decades of experience broke it down. Actors don’t check if it’s live or blank and most don’t know. That’s the protocol on the 3-4 others with the director having ultimate responsibility.

In this case one pled guilty with no jail for cooperating. The Armorer Ms Reed was convicted and now Baldwin was dismissed. With that you might see Reed appeal her conviction.

I will try and find the statement from the Heat armorer it was in a FB post with several Firearms industry folks and broke it down.

 

[Butch627]

You can have your opinion. I am simply explaining what an industry person with decades of experience broke it down. Actors don’t check if it’s live or blank and most don’t know. That’s the protocol on the 3-4 others with the director having ultimate responsibility.

In this case one pled guilty with no jail for cooperating. The Armorer Ms Reed was convicted and now Baldwin was dismissed. With that you might see Reed appeal her conviction.

I will try and find the statement from the Heat armorer it was in a FB post with several Firearms industry folks and broke it down.

You are 100 percent wrong. Standard procedures are for the actor to have the firearm and ammo to be proven to be safe to the actor before it is loaded and put in his hands. I have outlined the proper procedures that I have seen used in small and big budget movies in this thread. Before you start bickering with me please read my posts in this thread. I feel like every time this thread gets posted after an absence new players with all kinds of new information enter it without reading anything else in the thread. As far as I know I am the only one in this thread that has ever been on film sets, taken classes on film firearm safety, and has been involved directly in the procedures.