Bad Cop Going Down (hopefully) - Citizen Sure to Get Payday

[hornadylnl]

I'm going with phylodog on this one. Sure age, physical condition, injuries, ability, etc. all come into play on use of force issues. But, a strike to the head with a blunt object does not appear justified or reasonable. Would you not consider strikes to the head with a blunt object such as a baton or gun to be deadly force? If the officer felt justified in using deadly force, why would he have chosen pistol whipping as his method of subduing this subject? Hold at gunpoint and issue commands, you have backup three steps behind you. His decision to strike the subject with a pistol was bad, but to then lie about it on the report is worse. The only thing an officer has in his profession is integrity. You're pretty much useless in court after something like this comes out.

I just sat on a jury where a sheriff's deputy testified. His police report and testimony seemed to be a pretty gross exageration compared to the dash cam footage. All 7 of us on the jury felt that way. Needless to say, if I ever have dealings with that deputy, I won't trust him any farther than I can throw him.

Right, wrong, or indifferent, actions like these put a bad light on the profession. Us peasants are powerless to stop it and the only people who are going to repair the reputation of officers are officers themselves. I don't have enough evidence to convict this officer of anything, no matter how bad it looks. But I've got damn sure more than enough evidence to fire him. Any following this story, please post an update when this officer is terminated.

 

[downzero]

I have read more police reports than I care to count, and they're basically all a gross exaggeration. That's the reason we have live testimony if the case ever gets to trial.

Nobody ever mistakes a police report for an objective narrative of the facts. The police don't exactly think highly of most of the people they're arresting. And for good reason, because most of them are the scum of the earth. They're also not all the best writers. But the police report serves an important, intermediate function in the investigation. It's not the end.

The barrier between freedom and tyranny is the jury. That is why it's a shame that citizens don't take jury duty more seriously. They are the threshold guardians between the defendant keeping his rights and having them extinguished.

 

[hornadylnl]

I have read more police reports than I care to count, and they're basically all a gross exaggeration. That's the reason we have live testimony if the case ever gets to trial.

Nobody ever mistakes a police report for an objective narrative of the facts. The police don't exactly think highly of most of the people they're arresting. And for good reason, because most of them are the scum of the earth. They're also not all the best writers. But the police report serves an important, intermediate function in the investigation. It's not the end.

The barrier between freedom and tyranny is the jury. That is why it's a shame that citizens don't take jury duty more seriously. They are the threshold guardians between the defendant keeping his rights and having them extinguished.

This is true but how many believe that the officer would never lie in his report or on the stand? When you have nothing more than he said/she said, who are they going to believe? The officer in a nicely pressed uniform or the scary 17 year old kid with thug pictures on twitter?

 

[NYFelon]

I have read more police reports than I care to count, and they're basically all a gross exaggeration. That's the reason we have live testimony if the case ever gets to trial.

Nobody ever mistakes a police report for an objective narrative of the facts. The police don't exactly think highly of most of the people they're arresting. And for good reason, because most of them are the scum of the earth. They're also not all the best writers. But the police report serves an important, intermediate function in the investigation. It's not the end.

The barrier between freedom and tyranny is the jury. That is why it's a shame that citizens don't take jury duty more seriously. They are the threshold guardians between the defendant keeping his rights and having them extinguished.

A point of which you may be aware, but seems missing from your post, is that many persons are of the opinion that simply being a defendant is prima facie evidence of guilt. I mean, if you didn't do it, why are you even on trial, right?

 

[downzero]

A point of which you may be aware, but seems missing from your post, is that many persons are of the opinion that simply being a defendant is prima facie evidence of guilt. I mean, if you didn't do it, why are you even on trial, right?

I have never been on a jury, so I'm not really qualified to comment. I have observed several jury trials from beginning to end, however, and I have never seen a jury convict in a close case. Of course the parties don't tell the jury that the close cases hardly ever go to trial, but I have never actually observed a jury return a guilty verdict in a case where I didn't genuinely believe that the state proved the defendant guilty. In other words, I really do believe that, at least in Indiana, juries are properly instructed and take their duty seriously. The existence of constitutional jury nullification in Indiana may play a part in that, but I don't really know.

This is true but how many believe that the officer would never lie in his report or on the stand? When you have nothing more than he said/she said, who are they going to believe? The officer in a nicely pressed uniform or the scary 17 year old kid with thug pictures on twitter?

I can't get into their head, so I don't know. I can say that in my observation, police are very authoritative witnesses until they embellish the truth on the stand. If they do that, they get destroyed on cross examination. The best way a cop can be a good witness is to be calm, stick to testifying to the facts he actually observed with his senses, and NOT try to embellish anything. Unfortunately for the people of Indiana, I have rarely seen this happen.

In my observation, the best police witnesses are detectives, because they do more thorough investigations rather than just investigate the initial call, and because they generally work closer with attorneys and so they understand the trial process better than patrolman, whose job places them at the tip of the spear so much that they're far removed from anything to do with the courtroom. I'm sure it depends on department, but I have talked to police officers who are in their late 20s or early 30s (so have maybe 7-10ish years on the force) who have either never been to court to testify or if they have, only a few times in their whole careers.

TV might suggest that cops are amazing witnesses, and some really are. But many--a shocking number--are not.

 

[NYFelon]

I have posted the link here before, and I don't feel like digging it up again, but the Suffolk County, NY Office of the District Attorney boasts a conviction at trial rate of over 97 percent. I don't know if it's just that they are just the most outstanding prosecutor's office on planet earth, or something else entirely. It just occurs to me that either jurors walk in to the courtroom already convinced or inclined to believe the party is guilty simply by nature of being charged and/or indicted, or as you say, they don't take their civic duty seriously, and just vote guilty to get it out of the way. I think the latter has very much to do with it myself, as people here are very self-absorbed and self-important.

In support of the last statement, it's not an uncommon sight here to see a new car (sticker still in window) taking up 2 parking spots very close to a store to prevent people from parking next to it, or to inconvenience the owner by parking in an unused section of the lot far away. I mean, because then they might have to walk. Unqualified vehicles in handicapped zones also frequent. People mumbling under their breath how "they don't have time for this" regardless of what the "this" might be. I think you get what I'm saying.

 

[TheReaper]

I have read more police reports than I care to count, and they're basically all a gross exaggeration. That's the reason we have live testimony if the case ever gets to trial.

Nobody ever mistakes a police report for an objective narrative of the facts. The police don't exactly think highly of most of the people they're arresting. And for good reason, because most of them are the scum of the earth. They're also not all the best writers. But the police report serves an important, intermediate function in the investigation. It's not the end.

The barrier between freedom and tyranny is the jury. That is why it's a shame that citizens don't take jury duty more seriously. They are the threshold guardians between the defendant keeping his rights and having them extinguished.

LOL!

 

[lashicoN]

First, he is not some armed guy from the neighborhood; he is a police officer
who's job it is to deter crime.

Huh? It's a police officer's job to enforce laws. What crime was committed?

He was indirectly put into that position by those you elected. So, it is his place to predict crime.

hahahahahaha You guys are a regular bunch of Tom Cruises, huh? Do all pre-crime agencies share Agatha or do the visions of future crimes come from within your own mind?

Second, the suspect did do something, he resisted law enforcement.

What law was the police officer trying to enforce? What law was this guy breaking?

 

[Effingham]

It's Prince George's County, MD.

The minute I saw that, everything became clear. I used to live in NE Virginia, and spent considerable time visiting friends over there. I really didn't like those guys and their rep.

 

[rw496]

What law was the police officer trying to enforce? What law was this guy breaking?

Police don't just enforce laws they also investigate suspicious behavior. The officer obviously believed a crime was about to be committed and was justified in stopping the BG. Once he ran he committed a crime. I'm sure you've been around here long enough to read the 10,000+ threads detailling Terry stops. This is similar to Terry, but the guy ran instead of waiting to be frisked.

 

[rw496]

I have posted the link here before, and I don't feel like digging it up again, but the Suffolk County, NY Office of the District Attorney boasts a conviction at trial rate of over 97 percent. I don't know if it's just that they are just the most outstanding prosecutor's office on planet earth, or something else entirely. It just occurs to me that either jurors walk in to the courtroom already convinced or inclined to believe the party is guilty simply by nature of being charged and/or indicted, or as you say, they don't take their civic duty seriously, and just vote guilty to get it out of the way. I think the latter has very much to do with it myself, as people here are very self-absorbed and self-important.

In support of the last statement, it's not an uncommon sight here to see a new car (sticker still in window) taking up 2 parking spots very close to a store to prevent people from parking next to it, or to inconvenience the owner by parking in an unused section of the lot far away. I mean, because then they might have to walk. Unqualified vehicles in handicapped zones also frequent. People mumbling under their breath how "they don't have time for this" regardless of what the "this" might be. I think you get what I'm saying.

The prosecutors here claim around a 97% conviction rate too. What that really means is they offer sweatheart plea deals to avoid going to trial and call it a conviction. Rarely will you see a jury trial. Once they get done being a lowly deputy pros. they take their 99% conviction rate resume and go into private practice.

 

[Benny]

Not me, I still look good. I've never hit anyone upside the head with a pistol though.

Lies!

If everything is as you state, these guys were in fact going to commit a robbery, were running from the cops, etc, this cop should still be terminated immediately. The fact that the video shows beyond a shadow of a doubt that he lied in his report, he should be terminated. He has ZERO integrity. Once you have proven that you have no integrity, he should be gone. If there should be criminal charges, he's innocent until proven guilty. If the system thinks his career should be determined in court, then enjoy the reputation they've earned.

^This.

There is no room for lying when it comes to a person that can absolutely ruin someone's life just by his/her accusations.

 

[IndyDave1776]

Not me, I still look good. I've never hit anyone upside the head with a pistol though.

Lies!

This is one time I would imagine phylodog doesn't mind being accused of lying. I wouldn't want another guy saying I look good!

 

[Denny347]

The lying part is the worst. Hey, the officer screwed up and did something he wasn't supposed to...MAN UP. Take your lumps like a professional. Integrity is the most important. Make a boneheaded choice, that sucks but if you man up and admit the mistake, your integrity is still intact. You might be out of a job or worse but that is the correct price for the action taken. I have no tolerance for lying. Lying puts you in a different class of scumbags.

 

[actaeon277]

It is always harder to regain trust, than it is to earn it the 1st time.

 

[Denny347]

I would even argue that as bad as the hit to the head was...lying about it is even worse. Making up a story is far worse than the act he was covering up, which was bad as well.